Hello B-Greek friends.
I have a question concerning John 16.26:
“ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου αἰτήσεσθε, καὶ οὐ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐρωτήσω τὸν πατέρα περὶ ὑμῶν·”
I would like to know what the sense of the middle voice is in “αἰτήσεσθε”.
In Gianfranco Nolli’s Italian translation, it says it means that the subject performs an action for himself, to his own advantage. What would that mean in this context?
In the context of what follows (“καὶ οὐ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐρωτήσω τὸν πατέρα περὶ ὑμῶν·”), is there any chance that it contains the idea that the disciples will be able to take the initiative themselves to ask, that in a sense they will be able to ask on their own authority? (I take “ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου” to mean in communion with Christ’s spirit or essence, so that would not be incompatible with their taking the initiative.)
While we’re at it, a quick question on “καὶ οὐ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐρωτήσω τὸν πατέρα περὶ ὑμῶν·”. Is the presence of “ἐγὼ” emphatic?
Thank you for any clarifications you can give me,
Thomas Hagen
John 16.26
Forum rules
This is a beginner's forum - see the Koine Greek forum for more advanced discussion of Greek texts. Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.
When answering questions in this forum, keep it simple, and aim your responses to the level of the person asking the question.
This is a beginner's forum - see the Koine Greek forum for more advanced discussion of Greek texts. Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.
When answering questions in this forum, keep it simple, and aim your responses to the level of the person asking the question.
-
- Posts: 114
- Joined: June 1st, 2011, 6:01 pm
- Location: Red Wing MN
- Contact:
Re: John 16.26
Here's what BDAG says about the distinction between the middle and active voice for this verb:
(without any real distinction betw. act. and mid.: the distinc. betw. act. [‘ask’ outright] and mid. [‘ask’ as a loan] found by ancient grammarians has only very limited validity for our lit. [B-D-F §316, 2; Mlt. 160f]; cp. Js 4:2f, where they seem to be used interchangeably)
Danker et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 30.
As for the use of ἐγώ, definitely emphatic: "I myself will ask…"
HTH,
James
(without any real distinction betw. act. and mid.: the distinc. betw. act. [‘ask’ outright] and mid. [‘ask’ as a loan] found by ancient grammarians has only very limited validity for our lit. [B-D-F §316, 2; Mlt. 160f]; cp. Js 4:2f, where they seem to be used interchangeably)
Danker et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 30.
As for the use of ἐγώ, definitely emphatic: "I myself will ask…"
HTH,
James
Proofreading and copyediting of ancient Near Eastern and biblical studies monographs
Re: John 16.26
Thank you, James, for your helpful answer.
Now that I know that “ἐγὼ” is emphatic, where does that take us as far as translating this phrase go?
John 16.26b: “καὶ οὐ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐρωτήσω τὸν πατέρα περὶ ὑμῶν·”
Some commentators say that the sense is something like: “it goes without saying that I’ll pray the father for you.” However, placing a special emphasis on “ἐγὼ” doesn’t seem to me to favor that interpretation.
Other commentators feel that Jesus is saying that there is no need for him to intercede for the disciples. As they ask in his name (in communion with his spirit) they can address the Father directly, and the Father will listen and answer because “He himself loves them” (v.27). In this case, the translation might go something like this: “and you won’t need me to pray the Father for you” or even “and I won’t be praying the Father for you”.
Are both of these interpretations possible? Is one preferable? Are there other possibilities?
Thanks again to James and to everyone,
Thomas
Now that I know that “ἐγὼ” is emphatic, where does that take us as far as translating this phrase go?
John 16.26b: “καὶ οὐ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐρωτήσω τὸν πατέρα περὶ ὑμῶν·”
Some commentators say that the sense is something like: “it goes without saying that I’ll pray the father for you.” However, placing a special emphasis on “ἐγὼ” doesn’t seem to me to favor that interpretation.
Other commentators feel that Jesus is saying that there is no need for him to intercede for the disciples. As they ask in his name (in communion with his spirit) they can address the Father directly, and the Father will listen and answer because “He himself loves them” (v.27). In this case, the translation might go something like this: “and you won’t need me to pray the Father for you” or even “and I won’t be praying the Father for you”.
Are both of these interpretations possible? Is one preferable? Are there other possibilities?
Thanks again to James and to everyone,
Thomas