Acts 17:25b KAI..KAI..KAI

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Acts 17:25b KAI..KAI..KAI

Postby klitwak » May 8th, 2012, 12:12 am

In looking at the phrase AUTOS DIDOUS PASI ZWHN KAI AND PNOHN KAI TA PANTA in Acts 17:25. I don't have a grammatical rule for this, but since KAI can mean "indeed," I am wondering if it is justifiable to translate this as "since he himself gives to all life and breath and indeed all things." It is the third KAI that I want to give an intensive/emphatic sense. If this was a narrative sequence, it would be appropriate to render KAI KAI KAI as and ..and..and but this is not narrative, and this seems to me to be a good choice, since ZWHN and PNOHN are parts of the larger whole, TA PANTA. Is this reasonable?

Also, is there a better way to understand DIDOUS than a concessive or circumstantial participle? Thanks.

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Re: Acts 17:25b KAI..KAI..KAI

Postby George F Somsel » May 8th, 2012, 1:39 am

οὐδὲ ὑπὸ χειρῶν ἀνθρωπίνων θεραπεύεται προσδεόμενός τινος, αὐτὸς διδοὺς πᾶσι ζωὴν καὶ πνοὴν καὶ τὰ πάντα·

καὶ … καὶ is usually understood as "both … and." I think the participle is here best understood as a circumstancial-"neither is he served by human hands [in the circumstance of] having need of something-himself giving to all …"
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Re: Acts 17:25b KAI..KAI..KAI

Postby David Lim » May 8th, 2012, 8:44 am

klitwak wrote:In looking at the phrase AUTOS DIDOUS PASI ZWHN KAI AND PNOHN KAI TA PANTA in Acts 17:25. I don't have a grammatical rule for this, but since KAI can mean "indeed," I am wondering if it is justifiable to translate this as "since he himself gives to all life and breath and indeed all things." It is the third KAI that I want to give an intensive/emphatic sense. If this was a narrative sequence, it would be appropriate to render KAI KAI KAI as and ..and..and but this is not narrative, and this seems to me to be a good choice, since ZWHN and PNOHN are parts of the larger whole, TA PANTA. Is this reasonable?

Also, is there a better way to understand DIDOUS than a concessive or circumstantial participle? Thanks.

Ken "


[Byz] ουδε υπο χειρων ανθρωπων θεραπευεται προσδεομενος τινος αυτος διδους πασιν ζωην και πνοην κατα παντα
[NA] ουδε υπο χειρων ανθρωπινων θεραπευεται προσδεομενος τινος αυτος διδους πασιν ζωην και πνοην και τα παντα
Both "και" seem the same to me. I don't think "τα παντα" must necessarily refer to "absolutely everything". Rather it could simply be that the author is saying that God gives to all creatures to live and breathe and have all things that they need. The Byzantine text has something different though.
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Re: Acts 17:25b KAI..KAI..KAI

Postby George F Somsel » May 8th, 2012, 3:21 pm

David Lim wrote: "Rather it could simply be that the author is saying that God gives to all creatures to live and breathe and have all things that they need. The Byzantine text has something different though."

That seems unlikely since the practice in the use of δίδωμι seems to be that the accusative is used for the object given while the dative is used to designate the recipient.
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Re: Acts 17:25b KAI..KAI..KAI

Postby David Lim » May 9th, 2012, 12:57 am

George F Somsel wrote:David Lim wrote: "Rather it could simply be that the author is saying that God gives to all creatures to live and breathe and have all things that they need. The Byzantine text has something different though."

That seems unlikely since the practice in the use of δίδωμι seems to be that the accusative is used for the object given while the dative is used to designate the recipient.


I don't get what you mean. I indeed took "πασιν" to be the recipient ("all [creatures]") and I took the three accusatives to be the things given ("life and breath and all [things]"). All I am saying is that "τα παντα" is not necessarily "everything under the sun or beyond the sun", so in this context it probably refers to "all [things] that they need" and does not include their "life and breath".
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Re: Acts 17:25b KAI..KAI..KAI

Postby George F Somsel » May 9th, 2012, 1:29 am

David Lim wrote: "I indeed took "πασιν" to be the recipient ("all [creatures]") and I took the three accusatives to be the things given …"

My apologies. Apparently I misunderstood you.
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learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.



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Re: Acts 17:25b KAI..KAI..KAI

Postby David Lim » May 9th, 2012, 1:55 am

George F Somsel wrote:David Lim wrote: "I indeed took "πασιν" to be the recipient ("all [creatures]") and I took the three accusatives to be the things given …"

My apologies. Apparently I misunderstood you.


Oh okay. By the way, how would you understand "κατα παντα" in the Byzantine text, if it really was written that way? Does it imply "according to all that God intends" or "according to each one as God wills" or something else?
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