I need help with Philippians 2:6-8

How do I work out the meaning of a Greek text? How can I best understand the forms and vocabulary in this particular text?
Forum rules
This is a beginner's forum - see the Koine Greek forum for more advanced discussion of Greek texts. Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.

Re: I need help with Philippians 2:6-8

Postby Eduardo Ortega » July 18th, 2012, 11:36 am

Jason Hare wrote:
Eduardo Ortega wrote:Many times I thought about studying Greek (and if everything goes right, later Hebrew).
<snip>
When? First I'll have to figure how to do it.

What do you recommend to start? books? a teacher? a course?

I didn't see much advertising about "study koine Greek" here, LOL


At this point, there is discussion all over the forum on the best grammars for beginning to learn Greek, for continued study, for precision and reference, etc. There is also discussion about learning to use ancient Greek as a spoken language.

If you're interested in starting up a study online, you can check out Textkit's Greek and Latin Forum. They often have people who get together for online studies by email or on the forum. There is also the GreekStudy list for the same thing.

I would encourage you to study Attic Greek as a starting point. Once you've got the sense of Attic (the language of ancient Athens), you'll be able to read the New Testament without any real problem at all.

If you would like specific resources, we can provide you with links to specific threads here on B-Greek for discussion of the various grammars available (free and otherwise), with their various pros and cons. :)

I can help you with Hebrew connections whenever you're ready for that. I live in Israel and actually teach Hebrew over the Internet to Americans.


Thank you.

What could be the point to learn ancient Greek as a spoken language? Perhaps I should go to those threads to ask this question.
If I go to Greece I would need to speak modern Greek. I only suppose it useful to talk to the first century people in Jesus second coming.
Eduardo Ortega
 
Posts: 37
Joined: July 1st, 2012, 1:21 am

Re: I need help with Philippians 2:6-8

Postby Eduardo Ortega » July 19th, 2012, 7:42 am

I'm still stuck with two options:

1) Being in the form of God(or a god), [even when] he didn't esteem being equaled to God as a robbery.
2) Being in the form of God(or a god), he didn't seek as a booty being equaled to God.

On linguistic grounds, is there something that forbids one of the translations?

The problem is that ἡγήσατο and ἁρπαγμὸν have seemingly too broad meanings
Eduardo Ortega
 
Posts: 37
Joined: July 1st, 2012, 1:21 am

Re: I need help with Philippians 2:6-8

Postby cwconrad » July 19th, 2012, 8:02 am

Eduardo Ortega wrote:I'm still stuck with two options:

1) Being in the form of God(or a god), [even when] he didn't esteem being equaled to God as a robbery.
2) Being in the form of God(or a god), he didn't seek as a booty being equaled to God.

On linguistic grounds, is there something that forbids one of the translations?

The problem is that ἡγήσατο and ἁρπαγμὸν have seemingly too broad meanings


I honestly do not believe that it's possible to discern the author's intention in this text without making assumptions that aren't derived from the Greek text itself or from a very profound background knowledge. It seems to me that the range of meanings of all the elements -- grammar, lexicography, syntax -- in the Greek text has been explored pretty thoroughly and that the discussion is spinning wheels. I see no reason why the discussion must be brought to a close, but I also can see no indication that it is moving toward any conclusion.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
… ἐπειδὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἠξίους
πίνειν, συνεκποτέ’ ἐστί σοι καὶ τὴν τρύγα Aristophanes, Plutus 1085
cwconrad
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm
Location: Burnsville, NC 28714

Re: I need help with Philippians 2:6-8

Postby Eduardo Ortega » July 23rd, 2012, 3:10 pm

Eduardo Ortega wrote:I'm still stuck with two options:

1) Being in the form of God(or a god), [even when] he didn't esteem being equalled to God as a robbery.
2) Being in the form of God(or a god), he didn't seek as a booty being equalled to God.

On linguistic grounds, is there something that forbids one of the translations?

The problem is that ἡγήσατο and ἁρπαγμὸν have seemingly too broad meanings


I think that the first word of the next verse (7) ἀλλὰ makes more sense with option 2), also the words "even when" that I added in option 1) I don't know if they are legally possible to be added.

1) Being in the form of God(or a god), [even when] he didn't esteem being equalled to God as a robbery.
nevertheless...
2) Being in the form of God(or a god), he didn't seek as a booty being equalled to God.
but...

I saw that both senses are possible for that word, but it is more frequently understood in the sense of "but" or "on the contrary".
Eduardo Ortega
 
Posts: 37
Joined: July 1st, 2012, 1:21 am

Previous

Return to What does this text mean?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest

cron