γάρ in Philippians 2:5

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γάρ in Philippians 2:5

Postby Eduardo Ortega » August 4th, 2012, 1:24 pm

Whether the original text included the word γάρ or not is a matter of debate. But if we consider the text including the word, what would be the sense? How to translate Philippians 2:5 with γάρ?

Thanks.
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Re: γάρ in Philippians 2:5

Postby Stephen Carlson » August 4th, 2012, 2:02 pm

What's wrong with the usual sense of γάρ?
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Re: γάρ in Philippians 2:5

Postby Eduardo Ortega » August 4th, 2012, 2:36 pm

Stephen Carlson wrote:What's wrong with the usual sense of γάρ?


γάρ is translated most of the times as because, providing the reason of the things that were stated before.
But I'm not sure that the meaning could be "because you need to have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus"
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Re: γάρ in Philippians 2:5

Postby Stephen Carlson » August 4th, 2012, 3:04 pm

Eduardo Ortega wrote:But I'm not sure that the meaning could be "because you need to have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus"


How are you getting "you need to have this mind" from φρονεῖτε?
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Re: γάρ in Philippians 2:5

Postby Louis L Sorenson » August 4th, 2012, 4:08 pm

The forum policy states: Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. . Here is the Nestle-Aland text which is missing γάρ.

5 Τοῦτο φρονεῖτε ἐν ὑμῖν ὃ καὶ ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ,

Aland, B., Aland, K., Black, M., Martini, C. M., Metzger, B. M., & Wikgren, A. (1993). The Greek New Testament (4th ed.) (517). Federal Republic of Germany: United Bible Societies.
'

The Byzantine textform has γάρ and a middle imperative:

 Τοῦτο γὰρ φρονείσθω ἐν ὑμῖν ὃ καὶ ἐν χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ·

The New Testament in the original Greek: Byzantine Textform 2005, with morphology. 2006. Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.


USB/NA27 has a note γὰρ φρονείσθω | φρονεῖτε
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Re: γάρ in Philippians 2:5

Postby Eduardo Ortega » August 4th, 2012, 6:59 pm

Stephen Carlson wrote:
Eduardo Ortega wrote:But I'm not sure that the meaning could be "because you need to have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus"


How are you getting "you need to have this mind" from φρονεῖτε?


That's the reason of my fist question, how to translate the verse including γάρ.

"Becasue..."

By the way, the full text of the verse is Τοῦτο γὰρ φρονείσθω ἐν ὑμῖν ὃ καὶ ἐν χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ
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Re: γάρ in Philippians 2:5

Postby Stephen Carlson » August 4th, 2012, 8:34 pm

Eduardo Ortega wrote:By the way, the full text of the verse is Τοῦτο γὰρ φρονείσθω ἐν ὑμῖν ὃ καὶ ἐν χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ


Thanks for quoting the full text (apparently from the Byzantine text). This text differs from the critical text in more than the conjunctive particle γάρ but also in the form of the verb.

I should have asked you to quote the text, because the issue is not merely the sense of the γάρ, but what it means in context with an imperative.

Danker's wonderful lexicon, BDAG, indicates that γάρ can have the sense of "yes, indeed" or "by all means," citing Heb 12:3, James 1:7, and 1 Pet 4:15. I would suggest that the Byzantine form of Phil 2:5 would fit this sense.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D. (Duke, New Testament)
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Re: γάρ in Philippians 2:5

Postby Eduardo Ortega » August 4th, 2012, 10:32 pm

Stephen Carlson wrote:
Eduardo Ortega wrote:By the way, the full text of the verse is Τοῦτο γὰρ φρονείσθω ἐν ὑμῖν ὃ καὶ ἐν χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ


Thanks for quoting the full text (apparently from the Byzantine text). This text differs from the critical text in more than the conjunctive particle γάρ but also in the form of the verb.

I should have asked you to quote the text, because the issue is not merely the sense of the γάρ, but what it means in context with an imperative.

Danker's wonderful lexicon, BDAG, indicates that γάρ can have the sense of "yes, indeed" or "by all means," citing Heb 12:3, James 1:7, and 1 Pet 4:15. I would suggest that the Byzantine form of Phil 2:5 would fit this sense.


Thanks.
And yes, it was the Byzantine text and the Critical text doesn't have the word.
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