klriley wrote:Joe Rutherford wrote:Hey Timothy, I'd be delighted to hear your analysis of the topic. PM or post if you'd like. I'm sure it would be a blessing. In your above post you refer to " the clear sense of the grammer". On that topic, one thing that stands out in this discussion is the constant reminder that AGGELWi is in the dative. What has not been pointed out, is that there are three general categories of the dative. Indirect object is one category. Instrumental is a dative category which no one has addressed in relation to AGGELWi. Is there some widely recognized grammatical rule which would forbid AGGELWi in Rev 2:1 to be classified as an instrumental dative?
The 'instrumental dative' indicates the instrument with which one does something. If you can find a situation in which John writing with an AGGELOS makes sense, then feel free to consider it a possibility. Until then, I would go with the traditional reading of John writing TO an AGGELOS rather than WITH one. I hope we can ignore the locative category of the dative. It is probably possible to find some way in which either an instrumental or locative meaning can be found in AGGELWi, but surely the dative meaning is the most obvious and most logical one?
The suggestion of the possibility that the dative be understood as instrumental is based on the fact that John is an instrument in the hand of the Lord for the purpose of writing to the 7 Churches. Context is that God is speaking to John and calls him TWi AGGELWi / then speaks the Church John is appointed to as angelic minister / then orders John to write / then John is told the message he is to write for each Church. The usual greeting to the seven Churches from John is written in vs 1:4, and John is not writing another individualized greeting, but is writing what God says. So again, I see this as a possibility of the grammer. This is also based on my belief that John is the 7 angels to the 7 Churches