What does αἰτήσητε mean?
I'm interested in how this word is used in John 15:16.
Jesus says "I appointed you that ye (plural?) should bear fruit, and that your (plural?) fruit should remain, so that whatsoever ye (plural?) should ask the Father in My name He should give it to you (plural?).
John 15:16
Forum rules
This is a beginner's forum - see the Koine Greek forum for more advanced discussion of Greek texts. Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.
When answering questions in this forum, keep it simple, and aim your responses to the level of the person asking the question.
This is a beginner's forum - see the Koine Greek forum for more advanced discussion of Greek texts. Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.
When answering questions in this forum, keep it simple, and aim your responses to the level of the person asking the question.
-
- Posts: 54
- Joined: July 9th, 2011, 9:25 am
John 15:16
I'm interested in John 15:16.
Jesus says "I appointed you that ye (plural?) should bear fruit, and that your (plural?) fruit should remain, so that whatsoever ye (plural?) should ask the Father in My name He should give it to you (plural?).
Is He talking about what they ask individually or collectively?
Jesus says "I appointed you that ye (plural?) should bear fruit, and that your (plural?) fruit should remain, so that whatsoever ye (plural?) should ask the Father in My name He should give it to you (plural?).
Is He talking about what they ask individually or collectively?
-
- Posts: 4166
- Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
- Location: Durham, NC
- Contact:
Re: John 15:16
Please quote the text and ask questions about the Greek text and not some translation.Forum rules
.... Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
-
- Posts: 54
- Joined: July 9th, 2011, 9:25 am
Re: John 15:16
οὐχ ὑμεῖς με ἐξελέξασθε , ἀλλ' ἐγὼ ἐξελεξάμην ὑμᾶς , καὶ ἔθηκα ὑμᾶς , ἵνα ὑμεῖς ὑπάγητε καὶ καρπὸν φέρητε , καὶ ὁ καρπὸς ὑμῶν μένῃ ; ἵνα ὅτι ἂν αἰτήσητε τὸν πατέρα ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου , δῷ ὑμῖν .Jonathan Robie wrote:Please quote the text and ask questions about the Greek text and not some translation.Forum rules
.... Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.
So is Jesus speaking to the disciples individually, or as a group?
Is He talking about what they ask individually or collectively?
Would the following be a good translation?
"I appointed you that ye (plural?) should bear fruit, and that your (plural?) fruit should remain, so that whatsoever ye (plural?) should ask the Father in My name He should give it to you (plural?)"?
Re: John 15:16
To both these questions I'd respond: What reason is there to suppose that Jesus is NOT addressing the group and talking about what they are asking collectively? Do you find a ἕκαστος (ὑμὦν) there or something that seems to imply it?Mike Burke wrote:
οὐχ ὑμεῖς με ἐξελέξασθε , ἀλλ' ἐγὼ ἐξελεξάμην ὑμᾶς , καὶ ἔθηκα ὑμᾶς , ἵνα ὑμεῖς ὑπάγητε καὶ καρπὸν φέρητε , καὶ ὁ καρπὸς ὑμῶν μένῃ ; ἵνα ὅτι ἂν αἰτήσητε τὸν πατέρα ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου , δῷ ὑμῖν .
So is Jesus speaking to the disciples individually, or as a group?
Is He talking about what they ask individually or collectively?
It might have been a better translation in the 17th century than it is today.Mike Burke wrote:
Would the following be a good translation?
"I appointed you that ye (plural?) should bear fruit, and that your (plural?) fruit should remain, so that whatsoever ye (plural?) should ask the Father in My name He should give it to you (plural?)"?
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
-
- Posts: 127
- Joined: May 7th, 2011, 3:52 am
Re: John 15:16
He is talking to them as a group in this chapter. There are 26 second person plural verbs in the chapter and not a single 2nd person singular. But that does not mean that all actions expected by the disciples have to be done together or in unison.Mike Burke wrote:
οὐχ ὑμεῖς με ἐξελέξασθε, ἀλλ' ἐγὼ ἐξελεξάμην ὑμᾶς καὶ ἔθηκα ὑμᾶς ἵνα ὑμεῖς ὑπάγητε καὶ καρπὸν φέρητε, καὶ ὁ καρπὸς ὑμῶν μένῃ, ἵνα ὅ τι ἂν αἰτήσητε τὸν πατέρα ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου, δῷ ὑμῖν.
So is Jesus speaking to the disciples individually, or as a group?
Is He talking about what they ask individually or collectively?
Would the following be a good translation?
"I appointed you that ye (plural?) should bear fruit, and that your (plural?) fruit should remain, so that whatsoever ye (plural?) should ask the Father in My name He should give it to you (plural?)"?
Translations in modern English will have to use the ambiguous "you" and context will indicate that a plural is meant. For other languages which have different words for you-singular and you-plural, then the you-plural would be used, and it is up to the reader to apply and interpret the text.
The verb for bearing fruit is also plural, but it refers to each individual bearing fruit which is indicated by the singular third person in v. 5.