ἐν, μεθ', παρ'

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Allan Rumsch
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Joined: February 12th, 2013, 1:20 pm

ἐν, μεθ', παρ'

Post by Allan Rumsch » May 18th, 2013, 1:33 am

In this week's Gospel, John 14: 8 - 17, there is a lot of use of the word ἐν. I wonder if I am oversimplifying by substituting the English in, or if I should investigate further how ἐν is used.

οὐ πιστεύεις ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρὶ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοί ἐστιν; τὰ ῥήματα ἃ ἐγὼ λέγω ὑμῖν ἀπ' ἐμαυτοῦ οὐ λαλῶ: ὁ δὲ πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοὶ μένων ποιεῖ τὰ ἔργα αὐτοῦ. 11πιστεύετέ μοι ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρὶ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοί: εἰ δὲ μή, διὰ τὰ ἔργα αὐτὰ πιστεύετε....13καὶ ὅ τι ἂν αἰτήσητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου τοῦτο ποιήσω, ἵνα δοξασθῇ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν τῷ υἱῷ: 14ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ με ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου ἐγὼ ποιήσω.

In verses 16 and 17 - κἀγὼ ἐρωτήσω τὸν πατέρα καὶ ἄλλον παράκλητον δώσει ὑμῖν ἵνα μεθ' ὑμῶν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα ᾖ, τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας, ὃ ὁ κόσμος οὐ δύναται λαβεῖν, ὅτι οὐ θεωρεῖ αὐτὸ οὐδὲ γινώσκει: ὑμεῖς γινώσκετε αὐτό, ὅτι παρ' ὑμῖν μένει καὶ ἐν ὑμῖν ἔσται. - the παράκλητον is amoung - μεθ' ὑμῶν ᾖ, remaining around - παρ' ὑμῖν μένει , and being in - ἐν ὑμῖν ἔσται us.

Is this just adding some variety to the repitition, or is there significance to the different prepositions?
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Stephen Carlson
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Re: ἐν, μεθ', παρ'

Post by Stephen Carlson » May 18th, 2013, 6:55 am

Allan Rumsch wrote:Is this just adding some variety to the repitition, or is there significance to the different prepositions?
In my opinion, this author is particularly prone to use variety as a means of reinforcing the common meaning of the various words.
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Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

Jonathan Boyd
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Re: ἐν, μεθ', παρ'

Post by Jonathan Boyd » May 20th, 2013, 7:59 am

ὅτι παρ' ὑμῖν μένει καὶ ἐν ὑμῖν ἔσται

I personally would see a distinction in this context, not so much because of the prepositions used but because of the tenses used and the larger context of John (e.g. 7:39; 14:16 and 16:7). This context implies a change from what they currently had to what they would have with reference to the Spirit. For that reason I would see a distinction between the Spirit's ministry "with them" during Jesus's ministry and "in them" after.
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Jonathan Boyd
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Stephen Carlson
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Re: ἐν, μεθ', παρ'

Post by Stephen Carlson » May 20th, 2013, 8:10 am

Thanks for your good comment, though it's not clear from the spelling whether the present μένει or the future μενεῖ was meant, for the earliest manuscripts did not write the accents.
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Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

Jonathan Boyd
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Joined: March 14th, 2013, 7:40 am

Re: ἐν, μεθ', παρ'

Post by Jonathan Boyd » May 20th, 2013, 9:19 am

κἀγὼ ἐρωτήσω τὸν πατέρα καὶ ἄλλον παράκλητον δώσει ὑμῖν ἵνα μεθ' ὑμῶν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα ᾖ, τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας, ὃ ὁ κόσμος οὐ δύναται λαβεῖν, ὅτι οὐ θεωρεῖ αὐτὸ οὐδὲ γινώσκει: ὑμεῖς γινώσκετε αὐτό, ὅτι παρ' ὑμῖν μένει καὶ ἐν ὑμῖν ἔσται
Thanks for your good comment, though it's not clear from the spelling whether the present μένει or the future μενεῖ was meant, for the earliest manuscripts did not write the accents.
Stephen, I'd thought of that possibility, and of course there's also discussion on whether ἔσται is the correct reading, but in the way I understand the text it's better to read μένει as present so that John is giving a reason for what precedes: ὑμεῖς γινώσκετε αὐτό, ὅτι παρ' ὑμῖν μένει. You know him because he dwells/resides with you. In other words, they already know something of the Spirit because he has been with them, not because he will be with them. I would then understand the second half of the sentence (καὶ ἐν ὑμῖν ἔσται) to explain v. 16 (κἀγὼ ἐρωτήσω τὸν πατέρα καὶ ἄλλον παράκλητον δώσει ὑμῖν ἵνα μεθ' ὑμῶν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα ᾖ).
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Jonathan Boyd
ABWE missionary - Colombia

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