εἰπὲ λόγῳ

How do I work out the meaning of a Greek text? How can I best understand the forms and vocabulary in this particular text?
Forum rules
This is a beginner's forum - see the Koine Greek forum for more advanced discussion of Greek texts. Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.

When answering questions in this forum, keep it simple, and aim your responses to the level of the person asking the question.
Post Reply
Allan Rumsch
Posts: 11
Joined: February 12th, 2013, 1:20 pm

εἰπὲ λόγῳ

Post by Allan Rumsch » June 3rd, 2013, 1:43 pm

In Luke 7:7 - διὸ οὐδὲ ἐμαυτὸν ἠξίωσα πρὸς σὲ ἐλθεῖν: ἀλλὰ εἰπὲ λόγῳ, καὶ ἰαθήτω ὁ παῖς μου - the centurion tells Jesus to just say with a λόγῳ and his servent will be healed. It has the sense of the word being a thing like a tool that can cause healing to happen, because, I think, that this is an example of the instrumental case. It does not seem to have the sense that the λόγῳ has in the dative case, usually with an article and a preposition such as εν, where λόγῳ refers to scripture or to discourse.
Does this seem like a reasonable understanding of λόγῳ in this instance?
0 x



Stephen Carlson
Posts: 2831
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: εἰπὲ λόγῳ

Post by Stephen Carlson » June 4th, 2013, 2:26 am

Yes, the instrumental use of the dative is a plausible suggestion. It is not necessary to have the preposition ἐν for this use.

(By the way, I don't think anyone uses the 8-case system anymore.)
0 x
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

David Lim
Posts: 901
Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

Re: εἰπὲ λόγῳ

Post by David Lim » June 4th, 2013, 2:58 am

Allan Rumsch wrote:In Luke 7:7 - διὸ οὐδὲ ἐμαυτὸν ἠξίωσα πρὸς σὲ ἐλθεῖν: ἀλλὰ εἰπὲ λόγῳ, καὶ ἰαθήτω ὁ παῖς μου - the centurion tells Jesus to just say with a λόγῳ and his servent will be healed. It has the sense of the word being a thing like a tool that can cause healing to happen, because, I think, that this is an example of the instrumental case.
It does seem to me to be an instrumental dative, but that does not imply that it is a tool that causes healing to happen. He said not "λογω ιασαι τον παιδα μου" but "ειπε λογω ..." Instead, it implies "I am not worthy, neither for you to come under my roof, nor for me to come to you, but I believe that you do not need to do anything more than give a word, and my servant will be healed.", where "λογω" is just the means by which Jesus was to give confirmation.
0 x
δαυιδ λιμ

Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1582
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: εἰπὲ λόγῳ

Post by Barry Hofstetter » June 4th, 2013, 10:46 am

It's simply a pleonasm, what we mean in English by "Speak the word." Why make it more complicated?
0 x
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

David Lim
Posts: 901
Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

Re: εἰπὲ λόγῳ

Post by David Lim » June 6th, 2013, 5:47 am

Barry Hofstetter wrote:It's simply a pleonasm, what we mean in English by "Speak the word." Why make it more complicated?
Yes, I think we're in complete agreement, but I think even that English rendering can be taken ambiguously to mean that there is particular kind of word which Jesus was to speak that has the power to heal, and I believe Allan may have misunderstood the meaning of "instrumental dative", so I was trying to explain that as well. By the way, I am not saying that we should avoid that English rendering, but only for the sake of clarifying here.
0 x
δαυιδ λιμ

Scott Lawson
Posts: 363
Joined: June 9th, 2011, 6:36 pm

Re: εἰπὲ λόγῳ

Post by Scott Lawson » June 7th, 2013, 11:10 am

Barry Hofstetter wrote:It's simply a pleonasm, what we mean in English by "Speak the word." Why make it more complicated?
Barry,

Your comment interests me. I understand you to be indicating that λόγῳ is pleonastic (what else would one speak except words?) and that we get the same sense without it, so why push meaning into a pleonasm? Do I understand you correctly?

ἀλλὰ εἰπὲ, καὶ ἰαθήτω ὁ παῖς μου
0 x
Scott Lawson

Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1582
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: εἰπὲ λόγῳ

Post by Barry Hofstetter » June 8th, 2013, 6:29 am

Hey, Scott. Why do we use similar expressions in English?
0 x
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

Scott Lawson
Posts: 363
Joined: June 9th, 2011, 6:36 pm

Re: εἰπὲ λόγῳ

Post by Scott Lawson » June 8th, 2013, 6:47 am

Barry Hofstetter wrote:Hey, Scott. Why do we use similar expressions in English?
Barry, I thought I was gonna get to ask the questions!
0 x
Scott Lawson

Scott Lawson
Posts: 363
Joined: June 9th, 2011, 6:36 pm

Re: εἰπὲ λόγῳ

Post by Scott Lawson » June 8th, 2013, 10:52 am

Barry Hofstetter wrote:Hey, Scott. Why do we use similar expressions in English?
Barry it seemed to me you were warning against basing exegesis in pleonasms. This makes sense to me. As to why pleonasms are used both in Greek and English is to clarify or make more fully apparent the thought expressed.
0 x
Scott Lawson

Post Reply

Return to “What does this text mean?”