Revelation 3:10 τηρήσω ἐκ

How do I work out the meaning of a Greek text? How can I best understand the forms and vocabulary in this particular text?
Forum rules
This is a beginner's forum - see the Koine Greek forum for more advanced discussion of Greek texts. Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.

When answering questions in this forum, keep it simple, and aim your responses to the level of the person asking the question.
Post Reply
Jonathan Robie
Posts: 3740
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Revelation 3:10 τηρήσω ἐκ

Post by Jonathan Robie » July 30th, 2016, 2:53 pm

Revelation 3:10 wrote:ὅτι ἐτήρησας τὸν λόγον τῆς ὑπομονῆς μου, κἀγώ σε τηρήσω ἐκ τῆς ὥρας τοῦ πειρασμοῦ τῆς μελλούσης ἔρχεσθαι ἐπὶ τῆς οἰκουμένης ὅλης, πειράσαι τοὺς κατοικοῦντας ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς.
Where can I find a good discussion of the plausible meanings of τηρήσω ἐκ in this verse? The only other place I see τηρεῖν+ἐκ in the Greek New Testament or LXX is in John 17:15:
John 17:15 wrote:οὐκ ἐρωτῶ ἵνα ἄρῃς αὐτοὺς ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου ἀλλ’ ἵνα τηρήσῃς αὐτοὺς ἐκ τοῦ πονηροῦ.
0 x


ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

cwconrad
Posts: 2112
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm
Location: Burnsville, NC 28714
Contact:

Re: Revelation 3:10 τηρήσω ἐκ

Post by cwconrad » July 31st, 2016, 6:01 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Revelation 3:10 wrote:ὅτι ἐτήρησας τὸν λόγον τῆς ὑπομονῆς μου, κἀγώ σε τηρήσω ἐκ τῆς ὥρας τοῦ πειρασμοῦ τῆς μελλούσης ἔρχεσθαι ἐπὶ τῆς οἰκουμένης ὅλης, πειράσαι τοὺς κατοικοῦντας ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς.
Where can I find a good discussion of the plausible meanings of τηρήσω ἐκ in this verse? The only other place I see τηρεῖν+ἐκ in the Greek New Testament or LXX is in John 17:15:
John 17:15 wrote:οὐκ ἐρωτῶ ἵνα ἄρῃς αὐτοὺς ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου ἀλλ’ ἵνα τηρήσῃς αὐτοὺς ἐκ τοῦ πονηροῦ.
This is not directly an answer to your question, Jonathan, -- and it may not be very helpful -- but it's always seemed to me that τηρεῖν has at least two overlapping senses in Biblical Greek, one being "keep strictly in view, observe and practice unfailingly" -- as a commandment, and another more like the regularly Greek verb φυλάσσειν, "preserve, protect, guard, keep from harm". What's the Hebrew verb represented by τηρεῖν in the LXX? Is it nitsar?
0 x
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Jonathan Robie
Posts: 3740
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: Revelation 3:10 τηρήσω ἐκ

Post by Jonathan Robie » July 31st, 2016, 9:12 am

cwconrad wrote:This is not directly an answer to your question, Jonathan, -- and it may not be very helpful -- but it's always seemed to me that τηρεῖν has at least two overlapping senses in Biblical Greek, one being "keep strictly in view, observe and practice unfailingly" -- as a commandment, and another more like the regularly Greek verb φυλάσσειν, "preserve, protect, guard, keep from harm". What's the Hebrew verb represented by τηρεῖν in the LXX? Is it nitsar?
According to Abbott-Smith, it translates שָׁמַר (šāmar), נָצַר (nāṣar), etc. I have not checked Hatch & Redpath.

Someone claimed that with ἐκ, this verb has the sense of "removing from". It does not seem to have that sense in the two places I can find this combination. BDAG suggests that it can mean to keep someone or something away from someone, that makes more sense to me.
0 x
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Tony Pope
Posts: 123
Joined: July 14th, 2011, 6:20 pm

Re: Revelation 3:10 τηρήσω ἐκ

Post by Tony Pope » August 1st, 2016, 3:19 am

There is some discussion in Beckwith's commentary. https://archive.org/stream/apocalypseof ... 2/mode/2up

Also R. H. Mounce refers to an article by Schuyler Brown, '"The Hour of Trial" (Rev 3:10)' Journal of Biblical Literature Vol. 85, No. 3 (Sep., 1966), pp. 308-314. See p. 310 in that article.
0 x

S Walch
Posts: 187
Joined: June 13th, 2011, 4:27 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Revelation 3:10 τηρήσω ἐκ

Post by S Walch » August 4th, 2016, 7:09 pm

Wonder whether it's just a slight variation of τηρεῖν+ἀπό as seen in Prov 7:5 LXX.

Interestingly, τηρεῖν appears the most in Prov LXX (12x out of 38), three times with regards to τηρεῖ τὴν ἑαυτοῦ ψυχήν (13:3, 16:17, 19:13). This seems to me to be the closest in meaning to Rev 3:10, in the sense of protecting/guarding.

Surprisingly, the sense of "observe so as to practice" for τηρεῖν in the LXX is only seen in two verses from what I can gather (Sirach 29:1, Tobit 14:9), and even these two the understanding "protect" could be understood. Prov 3:1 I see more as meaning "protect" rather than "observe".

Compare this to the NT, where one usually finds "observe so as to practice" as the main meaning, with "protecting" being the secondary.

Unless, of course, those verses commonly seen as "observing" should be more understood as "protecting" in sync with the LXX meaning?

To follow on from Jonathan's question, anyone done a study on the usage of τηρεῖν in the LXX/NT, and in Greek literature during the time between the two? Would be interesting to see when the idea of "observing" came to be at the forefront over the idea of "protecting/guarding".
0 x

S Walch
Posts: 187
Joined: June 13th, 2011, 4:27 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Revelation 3:10 τηρήσω ἐκ

Post by S Walch » August 5th, 2016, 2:52 am

(Apologies for DP)

Is it something that φυλασσω is never found in Revelation, and φυλακη is only used in a completely 'negative' sense? It means either "prison" (2:10, 20:7) or "refuge/haunt" (18:2).

τηρεω is a "positive" word, and as such I believe it is more or less being used in the sense usually occupied by φυλασσω meaning "to guard, protect".
0 x

Post Reply

Return to “What does this text mean?”