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In John 17:26 what does "ᾖ κἀγὼ ἐν αὐτοῖς" mean?

Posted: June 28th, 2019, 6:57 am
by Bill Ross
John 17:26 καὶ ἐγνώρισα αὐτοῖς τὸ ὄνομά σου καὶ γνωρίσω ἵνα ἡ ἀγάπη ἣν ἠγάπησάς με ἐν αὐτοῖς ᾖ κἀγὼ ἐν αὐτοῖς

Does this construction (and the context) indicate that Christ is asking to be in the disciples? Among them? Or does it leave open a less personal involvement, "my character might be in them"?

The NIV has "that I myself may be in them". Is "myself" implied or is that overkill?

NIV John 17:26 I have made you [literally, "your name"] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

It seems to me that the juxtaposition indicates personal involvement as opposed to the character in the previous clause (ἵνα ἡ ἀγάπη ἣν ἠγάπησάς με ἐν αὐτοῖς) but I'm wondering if the construction favors a less or more literal being in/among.

Re: In John 17:26 what does "ᾖ κἀγὼ ἐν αὐτοῖς" mean?

Posted: June 28th, 2019, 8:15 am
by Barry Hofstetter
I don't see how the Greek can answer your prior question. As the for the latter, the NIV translators apparently see ἐγώ as sufficiently emphatic in the context to justify the "myself" rendering. Other translations do not do so, e.g., ESV, NAS. I think it is sufficiently emphatic from context without adding "myself," which I think would be better rendered if αὐτός had been used.

Re: In John 17:26 what does "ᾖ κἀγὼ ἐν αὐτοῖς" mean?

Posted: June 28th, 2019, 4:12 pm
by Stephen Carlson
Bill Ross wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 6:57 am
John 17:26 καὶ ἐγνώρισα αὐτοῖς τὸ ὄνομά σου καὶ γνωρίσω ἵνα ἡ ἀγάπη ἣν ἠγάπησάς με ἐν αὐτοῖς ᾖ κἀγὼ ἐν αὐτοῖς
Bill Ross wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 6:57 am
It seems to me that the juxtaposition indicates personal involvement as opposed to the character in the previous clause (ἵνα ἡ ἀγάπη ἣν ἠγάπησάς με ἐν αὐτοῖς) but I'm wondering if the construction favors a less or more literal being in/among.
It needs to be clarified that ᾖ and κἀγὼ ἐν αὐτοῖς belong to separate clauses.

Re: In John 17:26 what does "ᾖ κἀγὼ ἐν αὐτοῖς" mean?

Posted: June 28th, 2019, 4:15 pm
by Stephen Carlson
Bill Ross wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 6:57 am
John 17:26 καὶ ἐγνώρισα αὐτοῖς τὸ ὄνομά σου καὶ γνωρίσω ἵνα ἡ ἀγάπη ἣν ἠγάπησάς με ἐν αὐτοῖς ᾖ κἀγὼ ἐν αὐτοῖς

Does this construction (and the context) indicate that Christ is asking to be in the disciples? Among them? Or does it leave open a less personal involvement, "my character might be in them"?
I don't know where this "my character" is coming from. Is that someone's interpretation?

Re: In John 17:26 what does "ᾖ κἀγὼ ἐν αὐτοῖς" mean?

Posted: June 28th, 2019, 4:23 pm
by Bill Ross
By "character" I was trying to contrast his personally being in/among them to his being there by their being like him, etc. But I think my question has already been answered.