SusanJeffers wrote:Here's what I'm meaning to say. Bear in mind that all I have to work with is proper names in the nominative, the 9 verbs I mentioned in the present active indicative and present active infinitive, plus και, οτι and ου/ουκ/ουχ
Λουκας διδασκει. Στεφανος ουκ ακουει και ου βλεπει οτι Λουκας διδασκει. και Δορκας ουκ ακουει και ου βλεπει οτι Λουκας διδασκει. οτι ουκ ακουουσιν και ου βλεπουσιν, ου πιστευουσιν οτι Λουκας διδασκει.
Lukas is teaching. Stephanos does not hear and does not see that Lukas is teaching. And Dorcas does not hear and does not see that Lukas is teaching. Because they do not hear and do not see, they do not believe that Lukas is teaching.
SusanJeffers wrote:What I'm trying to do is build some context ("because they do not hear and do not see") as to WHY someone might "not believe."
All as a means to the end of illustrating causative οτι early on.
I don't doubt that it sounds odd -- how could it not, with so little vocabulary & grammar available? But is it intelligible? If not, can someone suggest a fix using only my admittedly self-imposed constraints?
(b) putting the causal οτι clause ahead of the indicative λεγω, πιστευω etc is a legitimate and intelligible way to make sure it functions causally.
FYI in case anyone is still reading along, especially actual beginners in NT Greek, here are a couple more GNT sentences (besides John 1:50) on which I'm modeling my "causal οτι clause first, then indicative" sentences:
2 Cor 1:5 οτι καθως περισσευει τα παθηματα του Χριστου εις ημας, ουτως δια του Χριστου περισσευει και η παρακλησις ημων.
because just as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, thus through Christ our consolation also abounds.
Rev 3:10 οτι ετηρησας τον λογον της υπμονης μου, καγω σε τηρησω εκ της ωρας του πειρασμου.
because you kept the word of my perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing.
SusanJeffers wrote:Carl writes:
"I would also be hesitant in composition about using ὅτι in the causal sense. It's easy enough to indicate causality in other ways: διὰ τί γινώσκω διδάσκειν τὸν Πέτρον; διότι βλέπω τε καὶ ἀκούω διδάσκοντα τὸν Πέτρον."
Right -- and if my goal were to write Greek in my own style, for the purpose of communicating my own thoughts, I might well avoid causal οτι as several have suggested. But my task is to teach intro Greek to students who are expected to recognize causal οτι as well as their other "vocabulary words to memorize" and grammatical/syntactic/discourse structures common in the GNT. So I want to give them practice from the time οτι is first introduced as vocabulary with gloss "because", in Lesson 2.
SusanJeffers wrote:David wrote:
"Seriously as I said before I think putting "οτι ..." before the statement is really quite uncommon and should be avoided."
Point taken - it's uncommon -- so I guess you're saying that I should just give up on writing a sentence or story for lesson 2 to illustrate causal οτι? All I have to work with is the present active indicative and present active infinitive of ακουω, βλεπω, γινωσκω, γραφω, διδασκω, θελω, λεγω, λυω, πιστευω. No aorist, no participles, no other words besides nominative proper names, these verbs, and και, οτι, ου / ουκ / ουχ ... I'm not trying to say any particular thing, I'm just trying to say ANYTHING that would illustrate causal οτι at this very early stage in the course / textbook.
SusanJeffers wrote:However I'm working from Croy's LESSON 2. Lesson 1 taught the alphabet, Lesson 2 present active indicative and present active infinitive. That's ALL.
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