Dave Black on What Greek Teachers Won’t Tell You

Stephen Carlson
Posts: 2539
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Dave Black on What Greek Teachers Won’t Tell You

Post by Stephen Carlson » May 31st, 2012, 10:06 am

RandallButh wrote:at least you didn't emend my comment:
They only need the skill to generate a Hebrew NT on the fly.
When the NT field has that skill, things will change, at least in gospel and historical Jesus studies.
It is a shame this forum software doesn't have "like" button, because I would have "liked" it. Classic Buth.

Duke a couple years ago started requiring their NT doctoral students to pass an oral Hebrew exam. Not at the level of translating the NT into Hebrew on the fly, but it's a step in the right direction.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

Paul-Nitz
Posts: 422
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 4:19 am
Location: Lilongwe, Malawi

Hebrew NT

Post by Paul-Nitz » September 1st, 2014, 6:37 am

Hebrew NT

As mentioned above, Delitzsch is available here - Gospels only:
http://vineofdavid.org/resources/dhe/th ... w-gospels/

I can find no pdf of Delitzsch on the Internet. Archive.org, JSTOR, and ForgottenBooks all give teasers, but they only lead to the introduction.

As I was searching, I found that there is another translation of the NT into Hebrew, done by a Jewish scholar, Salkinson. Here's an excerpt about it...

  • Current readers of the Hebrew Bible have at their disposal two alternate versions of the New Testament – in modern and in “archaic” Hebrew. When we talk about “archaic” Hebrew, we mean both biblical and Mishnaic (post-biblical) Hebrew – two styles that Delitzsch skillfully combined in his text. Those who prefer today the “ancient” style over the contemporary colloquial Hebrew, point to the contribution of the “classical” style to the idiomatic uniformity with the Old Testament. This is enabled through the close syntax and even lexicography that promotes associative connections between Old and New Testaments. Among the ongoing reprints of the New Testament in “classical” style one also finds today the translation begun in 1877 by the Jewish scholar Isaac Edward Salkinson (1820–1883), and published posthumously in 1885. It was completed and revised after his death by Christian David Ginsburg. This version of the Salkinson-Ginsburg Hebrew New Testament has been completed and edited to correspond to the Greek Textus Receptus (received text) by Eric (Aharon) Selig Gabe of London [3rd ed. 2000]. This text is widely distributed within a bi-lingual format. In general, of these two "classical" translations of Delitzsch on one hand and Salkinson-Ginsburg on the other, the better text, in my estimation, is the one produced by Delitzsch.

    Mishkan - A Forum on the Gospel and Jewish People, pp. 49ff.
    http://caspari.com/new/images/stories/a ... hkan41.pdf


The Salkinson version is available at archive.org, split into separate files. Links are below. Warning - each pdf has a sheaf of propaganda appended.

Logos doesn't offer Delitzsch's NT. Bibleworks does have it according to this blog. ttp://bibleworksuserblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/delitzsch-hebrew-new-testament.html
Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi

RandallButh
Posts: 852
Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am

Re: Dave Black on What Greek Teachers Won’t Tell You

Post by RandallButh » September 1st, 2014, 7:24 am

Paul,
I concur that the Delitsch translation is preferable for those preferring an 'ancient style' translation.

And I missed the comment by Stephen a couple of years ago, or forget any follow-up:
Duke a couple years ago started requiring their NT doctoral students to pass an oral Hebrew exam. Not at the level of translating the NT into Hebrew on the fly, but it's a step in the right direction.
אני מסכים. I agree. How is it administered?
איך מנהלים את המבחן? השאלות בעברית וגם התשובות והכל בעל פה? יפה
So presumably there is already a higher-level oral exam in Greek? καλῶς ἔσται αὐτὴν ἀκοῦσαι εἰ ἂν εἴη παράδειγμα ἐν τῷ διαδικτύῳ.

Stephen Carlson
Posts: 2539
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Dave Black on What Greek Teachers Won’t Tell You

Post by Stephen Carlson » September 1st, 2014, 10:05 am

RandallButh wrote:Paul,
I concur that the Delitsch translation is preferable for those preferring an 'ancient style' translation.

And I missed the comment by Stephen a couple of years ago, or forget any follow-up:
Duke a couple years ago started requiring their NT doctoral students to pass an oral Hebrew exam. Not at the level of translating the NT into Hebrew on the fly, but it's a step in the right direction.
אני מסכים. I agree. How is it administered?
איך מנהלים את המבחן? השאלות בעברית וגם התשובות והכל בעל פה? יפה
So presumably there is already a higher-level oral exam in Greek? καλῶς ἔσται αὐτὴν ἀκοῦσαι εἰ ἂν εἴη παράδειγμα ἐν τῷ διαδικτύῳ.
The oral exam consisted of being given a clean BHS and asked to read aloud and sight translate randomly chosen passages from Genesis and Malachi. Then it involved answering questions on points of grammar that occurred in the passage.

There was no oral exam for Greek.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia

Jonathan Robie
Posts: 3028
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: Hebrew NT

Post by Jonathan Robie » September 1st, 2014, 10:53 am

Paul-Nitz wrote:I can find no pdf of Delitzsch on the Internet. Archive.org, JSTOR, and ForgottenBooks all give teasers, but they only lead to the introduction.
Is this it?

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL2439638 ... _Testament
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

RandallButh
Posts: 852
Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am

Re: Dave Black on What Greek Teachers Won’t Tell You

Post by RandallButh » September 1st, 2014, 12:34 pm

Yes, Jonathan,
that is the 12th edition.

Paul-Nitz
Posts: 422
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 4:19 am
Location: Lilongwe, Malawi

Re: Dave Black on What Greek Teachers Won’t Tell You

Post by Paul-Nitz » September 2nd, 2014, 7:04 am

Jonathon,
χάριν ἔχω. It's a very readable copy.

Randall,
How would you (if at all) suggest a copy of Delitzsch's Hebrew NT would be used or useful?

Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi

RandallButh
Posts: 852
Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am

Re: Dave Black on What Greek Teachers Won’t Tell You

Post by RandallButh » September 2nd, 2014, 10:38 am

Delitzsch is always worth checking to see what he did with something since he put in a lot of homework on his translations.

For best use, this must be read against a full background of mishnaic and Second-Temple literary Hebrew (Late Biblical+Qumran).

Arne Halbakken
Posts: 3
Joined: June 1st, 2011, 11:43 am

Re: Hebrew NT

Post by Arne Halbakken » September 3rd, 2014, 2:53 am

Paul-Nitz wrote:Hebrew NT

Logos doesn't offer Delitzsch's NT. Bibleworks does have it according to this blog. ttp://bibleworksuserblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/delitzsch-hebrew-new-testament.html


Accordance does offer Delitzsch's NT and a modern Hebrew NT (copyright 1976, 1991 by The Bible Society in Israel) as a parallel module. I would imagine that the latter is based on Salkinson. I have a hard copy of the 1976 version at home and would have to check the preface to see if it discusses the translation history.
http://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=MHNT

It is interesting comparing the two translations.

Arne Halbakken

RandallButh
Posts: 852
Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am

Re: Dave Black on What Greek Teachers Won’t Tell You

Post by RandallButh » September 3rd, 2014, 9:17 am

The UBS version ('76, '91) is fully modern and not based on either Delitzsch or Salkinson.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest