Question regarding κατ’ ἰδίαν

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Question regarding κατ’ ἰδίαν

Postby Bob Nyberg » April 23rd, 2013, 1:01 pm

It appears that when ἴδιος follows κατά in the N.T. (such as κατ’ ἰδίαν) it is usually in the feminine form. I was wondering why that might be.

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Re: Question regarding κατ’ ἰδίαν

Postby David Lim » April 24th, 2013, 11:03 am

κατ ιδιαν [χωραν] (idiom) = privately
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Re: Question regarding κατ’ ἰδίαν

Postby Jonathan Robie » April 24th, 2013, 11:30 am

David Lim wrote:κατ ιδιαν [χωραν] (idiom) = privately


In other words, it's in the feminine form because that's the idiom ...
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: Question regarding κατ’ ἰδίαν

Postby Bob Nyberg » April 24th, 2013, 12:28 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
David Lim wrote:κατ ιδιαν [χωραν] (idiom) = privately


In other words, it's in the feminine form because that's the idiom ...


I know that in English there are reasons for certain idioms and others ... well not so much.

A friend of mine has an interesting theory as to why it is feminine. It makes sense to me, but I have no idea if it is correct. He wrote to me:

Possibly because the implied word (ψυχή) is feminine. In other words, the word “self” has been left out of the context and needs to be supplied by the reader. The noun ψυχή is feminine and refers to oneself, so ἰδίαν is also given in the feminine form.

That's better than anything that I could come up with! LOL

Any thots?

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Re: Question regarding κατ’ ἰδίαν

Postby Stephen Carlson » April 24th, 2013, 1:22 pm

Some sort of feminine noun is implied by the idiom. Whether it's χώρα, ψυχή, or some other noun, I haven't been able to tell (neither full phrase generates any hits on TLG), but since it's an idiom that doesn't really matter anymore.
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Re: Question regarding κατ’ ἰδίαν

Postby Bob Nyberg » April 24th, 2013, 2:48 pm

Stephen Carlson wrote:Some sort of feminine noun is implied by the idiom. Whether it's χώρα, ψυχή, or some other noun, I haven't been able to tell (neither full phrase generates any hits on TLG), but since it's an idiom that doesn't really matter anymore.


Thanks.

I find things like this interesting. If there is no reason other than "that's the way this idiom works" then I can certainly live with that. But if there is a reason such as an implied feminine noun that ἰδίαν is referring to, then my curiosity wants to know. :D

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Re: Question regarding κατ’ ἰδίαν

Postby David Lim » April 24th, 2013, 9:07 pm

Stephen Carlson wrote:Some sort of feminine noun is implied by the idiom. Whether it's χώρα, ψυχή, or some other noun, I haven't been able to tell (neither full phrase generates any hits on TLG), but since it's an idiom that doesn't really matter anymore.

http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=bhx ... J&pg=PA157 confirms my guess, and might be useful concerning other ellipses too.
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Re: Question regarding κατ’ ἰδίαν

Postby Stephen Carlson » April 25th, 2013, 12:37 am

David Lim wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:Some sort of feminine noun is implied by the idiom. Whether it's χώρα, ψυχή, or some other noun, I haven't been able to tell (neither full phrase generates any hits on TLG), but since it's an idiom that doesn't really matter anymore.

http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=bhx ... J&pg=PA157 confirms my guess, and might be useful concerning other ellipses too.


It's interesting speculation but it does not actually confirm anything because he cites no evidence of the longer phrase.
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Re: Question regarding κατ’ ἰδίαν

Postby David Lim » April 26th, 2013, 2:22 am

Stephen Carlson wrote:
David Lim wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:Some sort of feminine noun is implied by the idiom. Whether it's χώρα, ψυχή, or some other noun, I haven't been able to tell (neither full phrase generates any hits on TLG), but since it's an idiom that doesn't really matter anymore.

http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=bhx ... J&pg=PA157 confirms my guess, and might be useful concerning other ellipses too.


It's interesting speculation but it does not actually confirm anything because he cites no evidence of the longer phrase.

Yes it didn't provide proof, but perhaps he was relying on "similar" phrases like "εις την ιδιαν χωραν" to infer the ellipsis?
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