LXX Solomon 17:22

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Tim Evans
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LXX Solomon 17:22

Post by Tim Evans » June 3rd, 2017, 7:14 am

Im having trouble with the articular infinitive below, from verse 22:
καὶ ὑπόζωσον αὐτὸν ἰσχὺν τοῦ θραῦσαι ἄρχοντας ἀδίκους,
Duff seems to imply that τοῦ θραῦσαι becomes a noun of sorts, i.e. perhaps:
And gird him (with) strength for smashing unrighteous rulers
But Lightfoot translates it as an actual infinitive:
And gird him with strength to shatter in pieces unrighteous rulers,
I wonder what I am missing.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: LXX Solomon 17:22

Post by Jonathan Robie » June 3rd, 2017, 11:40 am

As you obviously guessed, there's more to it than what you see in that quote. Here's a relevant passage from Funk's grammar:
833. The simple infinitive may be employed in verb chains to express purpose (Group II, §§574-576; Group III, §580). The infinitive may be used to express purpose in correlative constructions in which the infinitive is not simple.

833.1 The genitive of the articular infinitive may also be used to express purpose:

(8) ἰδοὺ ἐξῆλθεν ὁ σπείρων τοῦ σπείρειν Mt 13:3
Look, a sower went out to sow
(9) τότε παραγίνεται ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἀπὸ τῆς Γαλιλαίας
ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰορδάνην πρὸς τὸν Ἰωάννην τοῦ βαπτισθῆναι ὑπ' αὐτοῦ Mt 3:13
Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan, to John, to be baptized by him

There is no distinction in meaning between (8) and (9) above and the examples of the simple infinitive of purpose given in §575.

833.2 The accusative of the articular infinitive following εἰς or πρός is also a means of expressing purpose.

(10) ἔπεμψα εἰς τὸ γνῶναι τὴν πίστιν ὑμῶν 1 Thess 3:5
I sent that I might know your faith
(11) πάντα δὲ τὰ ἔργα αὐτῶν ποιοῦσιν πρὸς τὸ θεαθῆναι τοῖς ἀνθρώποις Mt 23:5
They do all their deeds in order to be seen of men

These constructions are grammatically synonymous with τοῦ and the infinitive (§833.1) and the simple infinitive of purpose (§575).
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

timothy_p_mcmahon
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Re: LXX Solomon 17:22

Post by timothy_p_mcmahon » June 3rd, 2017, 3:41 pm

Tim Evans wrote:
June 3rd, 2017, 7:14 am
Duff seems to imply that τοῦ θραῦσαι becomes a noun of sorts
An infinitive is a noun of sorts.

Duff's translation converts the Greek infinitive into an English gerund, which is more idiomatic in this context than an infinitive.

It's like in English saying I enjoy swimming. The action of the verb 'swim' is refomatted as a noun to function as a direct object. Of course, with many English verbs the infinitive would also work (e.g., I like swimming / I like to swim), but for some reason *I enjoy to swim is not grammatical.

Ken M. Penner
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Re: LXX Solomon 17:22

Post by Ken M. Penner » June 3rd, 2017, 5:04 pm

timothy_p_mcmahon wrote:
June 3rd, 2017, 3:41 pm
Tim Evans wrote:
June 3rd, 2017, 7:14 am
Duff seems to imply that τοῦ θραῦσαι becomes a noun of sorts
An infinitive is a noun of sorts.
Exactly.
FWIW, my translation in the Lexham English Septuagint is "And undergird him with strength to shatter unrighteous rulers. "
Ken M. Penner
St. Francis Xavier University

Tim Evans
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Re: LXX Solomon 17:22

Post by Tim Evans » June 3rd, 2017, 8:40 pm

Ken M. Penner wrote:
June 3rd, 2017, 5:04 pm
FWIW, my translation in the Lexham English Septuagint is "And undergird him with strength to shatter unrighteous rulers. "
I was not aware of this resource. I have a few pulled up next to the greek in Accordance, however most of them are in fairly old English. It would be nice to have some more modern translations (I do have NETS though).

Sadly Lexham English Septuagint it appears to not be available in Accordance. I'll be sure to purchase it when it finally does.

Tim Evans
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Re: LXX Solomon 17:22

Post by Tim Evans » June 3rd, 2017, 8:53 pm

By the way, its an honour to meet someone who has done published translation of this text.

I notice that you translate v26 "to crush all their support with an iron rod", in contrast to NETS which has a slightly less clear v24 "to shatter all their substance with an iron rod"

Was there a reason you chose one over the other? I was drawn to the BDAG option for translating ὑπόστασιν as "plan, project, endeavour", i.e. "to crush their all plans with an iron rod". I have no scholarly argument for this though except perhaps to appeal to the parallelism that could be going on here (i.e. plans would parallel with words—you don't normally crush "action plans" with a rod, but you don't normally crush nations with a word either.)

(It appears to me like this whole section might have parallelism to a certain extent i.e. v22 shatter/trample v23 inheritance/vessels v24 shatter/destroy)

Ken M. Penner
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Re: LXX Solomon 17:22

Post by Ken M. Penner » June 4th, 2017, 7:20 am

Thank you for the kind words, Tim.
Tim Evans wrote:
June 3rd, 2017, 8:53 pm
I notice that you translate v26 "to crush all their support with an iron rod", in contrast to NETS which has a slightly less clear v24 "to shatter all their substance with an iron rod"
Was there a reason you chose one over the other?
B-Greek policy is to quote the text.
PsSol 17.21-25 wrote:21 Ἰδέ, κύριε, καὶ ἀνάστησον αὐτοῖς τὸν βασιλέα αὐτῶν υἱὸν Δαυιδ εἰς τὸν καιρόν, ὃν εἵλου σύ, ὁ θεός, τοῦ βασιλεῦσαι ἐπὶ Ισραηλ παῖδά σου, 22 καὶ ὑπόζωσον αὐτὸν ἰσχὺν τοῦ θραῦσαι ἄρχοντας ἀδίκους, καθαρίσαι Ιερουσαλημ ἀπὸ ἐθνῶν καταπατούντων ἐν ἀπωλείᾳ, 23 ἐν σοφίᾳ δικαιοσύνης ἐξῶσαι ἁμαρτωλοὺς ἀπὸ κληρονομίας, ἐκτρῖψαι ὑπερηφανίαν ἁμαρτωλοῦ ὡς σκεύη κεραμέως, 24 ἐν ῥάβδῳ σιδηρᾷ συντρῖψαι πᾶσαν ὑπόστασιν αὐτῶν, ὀλεθρεῦσαι ἔθνη παράνομα ἐν λόγῳ στόματος αὐτοῦ, 25 ἐν ἀπειλῇ αὐτοῦ φυγεῖν ἔθνη ἀπὸ προσώπου αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐλέγξαι ἁμαρτωλοὺς ἐν λόγῳ καρδίας αὐτῶν.
My primary reason for choosing "support" rather than "substance" is simple.
Because the LES is "Based on the work of the popular Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint," the LES translation policy was to be "transparent" to this Interlinear, and this meant matching the Interlinear's glosses when reasonable. Fred Long of Asbury Seminary, the editor for the Psalms of Solomon in the Interlinear, had "support" as the gloss for ὑπόστασις here.
That said, in Psalms of Solomon 15:5, Fred chose "substance."
Psalms of Solomon 15:5 wrote:ὅταν ἐξέλθῃ ἐπὶ ἁμαρτωλοὺς ἀπὸ προσώπου κυρίου ὀλεθρεῦσαι πᾶσαν ὑπόστασιν ἁμαρτωλῶν
Tim Evans wrote:
June 3rd, 2017, 8:53 pm
I was drawn to the BDAG option for translating ὑπόστασιν as "plan, project, endeavour", i.e. "to crush their all plans with an iron rod".
Etymologically, "substance" matches ὑπόστασις more closely. ὑπόστασις is a versatile word; prototypically it refers to something's underlying structure. So it gets used for foundations and essences. "Plan" is getting a bit far from that prototypical meaning, so I'd avoid it in a translation because its semantic range does not overlap much with the semantic range of ὑπόστασις. Even if I thought that was the sense of its use in this context, I'd make that point in a comment or note rather than in the translation itself.
For what it's worth, Muraoka categorizes this instance under "existence."
Muraoka, GELS wrote:4. existence: ἡ ὑ. μου ώσεὶ οὐθέν ἐνώπιον σου ‘my existence counts for almost nothing in your eyes’ Ps 38.6; 88.48, 138.15; ἡ ὐ. μου παρά σοῦ ἐστιν ‘my existence is derived from you’ 38.8; “I am trapped in the slime of the depth, and οὐκ ἔστιν ὐ. ‘I have no foothold’” 68.3; PSol 15.5, 17.24.
Ken M. Penner
St. Francis Xavier University

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