Can a genitive be both objective and subjective?

Grammar questions which are not related to any specific text.
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Bill Ross
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Can a genitive be both objective and subjective?

Post by Bill Ross » November 13th, 2018, 7:20 am

In this answer on another forum it is proposed that the genitive be understood as both subjective and objective since it is both the teaching that Jesus taught and the teaching about Jesus are essential:
CSB 2 John 1:9 Anyone who does not remain in Christ's teaching but goes beyond it does not have God. The one who remains in that teaching, this one has both the Father and the Son.

1:9 πᾶς ὁ παραβαίνων καὶ μὴ μένων ἐν τῇ διδαχῇ τοῦ Χριστοῦ Θεὸν οὐκ ἔχει ὁ μένων ἐν **τῇ διδαχῇ τοῦ Χριστοῦ** οὗτος καὶ τὸν πατέρα καὶ τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει
My understanding is that it is either one or the other but it occurs to me that I don't remember that being addressed in any grammar.

Must it be one or the other? Where is it documented?

Thanks,

Bill Ross
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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Can a genitive be both objective and subjective?

Post by Barry Hofstetter » November 13th, 2018, 11:13 am

Or it could be possessive... :shock:
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Can a genitive be both objective and subjective?

Post by Jonathan Robie » November 13th, 2018, 12:35 pm

Hmmmm, so the possibilities would be:
  • The things that Christ taught
  • The things that were taught about Christ
  • Both? If I understand correctly, the original post asks if it can mean both the things that Christ taught and the things that were taught about Christ.
  • The teachings that belong to Christ (Barry's possessive genitive)
Does that accurately summarize the possibilities we are considering?
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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MAubrey
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Re: Can a genitive be both objective and subjective?

Post by MAubrey » November 13th, 2018, 8:23 pm

No.

Wallace wants it to be the case, but it's impossible unless you make it mean something it doesn't mean. The subjective/objective distinction is predicated on mapping transitive clause syntax onto a noun phrase

The army destroyed the city.
The army's destruction of the city.

Something cannot be a subject and the object at the same time.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Can a genitive be both objective and subjective?

Post by Jonathan Robie » November 14th, 2018, 9:49 am

I think this is one of those times where each interpretation makes good theological sense, but these are two different interpretations of the same sentence, with different grammatical roles.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

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