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Present Tense

Posted: August 6th, 2011, 8:24 pm
by Jason Hare
sccarlson wrote:(1) The English progressive form "are saying" corresponds to the Greek present; there is no need to include ἐσμεν.
I just wanted to make sure that Stephen's first comment was understood here.

λέγομεν is used for all indicative present tense forms. In English, we have two regular present tense forms: simple ("I eat") and continuous/progressive ("I'm eating"). The former is used for habits and routines (as well as opinions and emotive verbs, even when in the immediate present), and the latter is used for specific instance statements, such as things that you're doing right now or intending to do at a specific instance in the future.

Greek only has one set of forms of the present tense (that is, within the indicative mood).

λέγω = "I speak, do speak, am speaking"
λέγεις = "you (sg.) speak, do speak, are speaking"
λέγει = "he/she/it speaks, does speak, is speaking"
λέγομεν = "we speak, do speak, are speaking"
λέγετε = "you (pl.) speak, do speak, are speaking"
λέγουσι(ν) = "they speak, do speak, are speaking"

So, again, make sure that you don't use ἐσμέν in the present tense, unless you just mean "we are" (as in, "We are friends" φιλοί ἐσμεν).

Just felt that needed some emphasis added to it, as we're keen to look at "emphasis" here on B-Greek (in the vague sense of the word, as if there were a not-so-vague sense). ;)

Regards,
Jason

Re: Prepositions and Personal Pronouns

Posted: August 6th, 2011, 10:15 pm
by David Lim
Jason Hare wrote:
sccarlson wrote:(1) The English progressive form "are saying" corresponds to the Greek present; there is no need to include ἐσμεν.
I just wanted to make sure that Stephen's first comment was understood here.

λέγομεν is used for all indicative present tense forms. In English, we have two regular present tense forms: simple ("I eat") and continuous/progressive ("I'm eating"). The former is used for habits and routines (as well as opinions and emotive verbs, even when in the immediate present), and the latter is used for specific instance statements, such as things that you're doing right now or intending to do at a specific instance in the future.

Greek only has one set of forms of the present tense (that is, within the indicative mood).

λέγω = "I speak, do speak, am speaking"
λέγεις = "you (sg.) speak, do speak, are speaking"
λέγει = "he/she/it speaks, does speak, is speaking"
λέγομεν = "we speak, do speak, are speaking"
λέγετε = "you (pl.) speak, do speak, are speaking"
λέγουσι(ν) = "they speak, do speak, are speaking"

So, again, make sure that you don't use ἐσμέν in the present tense, unless you just mean "we are" (as in, "We are friends" φιλοί ἐσμεν).

Just felt that needed some emphasis added to it, as we're keen to look at "emphasis" here on B-Greek (in the vague sense of the word, as if there were a not-so-vague sense). ;)
Hmm but if we do indeed really want to emphasize something like what we call "present continuous" in English, can we use the present periphrastic?

Re: Prepositions and Personal Pronouns

Posted: August 6th, 2011, 11:31 pm
by MAubrey
David Lim wrote:Hmm but if we do indeed really want to emphasize something like what we call "present continuous" in English, can we use the present periphrastic?
If you want to emphasize a particular part of a clause in Greek, you move it to the front of the clause and place more stress on it in your pronunciation.

Re: Prepositions and Personal Pronouns

Posted: August 7th, 2011, 1:05 am
by David Lim
MAubrey wrote:
David Lim wrote:Hmm but if we do indeed really want to emphasize something like what we call "present continuous" in English, can we use the present periphrastic?
If you want to emphasize a particular part of a clause in Greek, you move it to the front of the clause and place more stress on it in your pronunciation.
No I meant, if we want to specify the present continuous, would the present periphrastic be more appropriate than the simple verb in the present tense?

Re: Prepositions and Personal Pronouns

Posted: August 7th, 2011, 1:47 am
by MAubrey
David Lim wrote:
MAubrey wrote:
David Lim wrote:Hmm but if we do indeed really want to emphasize something like what we call "present continuous" in English, can we use the present periphrastic?
If you want to emphasize a particular part of a clause in Greek, you move it to the front of the clause and place more stress on it in your pronunciation.
No I meant, if we want to specify the present continuous, would the present periphrastic be more appropriate than the simple verb in the present tense?
The verb itself already is present continuous.

Re: Prepositions and Personal Pronouns

Posted: August 7th, 2011, 2:13 am
by timothy_p_mcmahon
Are there any examples of a periphrastic present in the NT? I can't think of any.

Re: Present Tense

Posted: August 7th, 2011, 11:14 am
by David Ting
So, again, make sure that you don't use ἐσμέν in the present tense, unless you just mean "we are" (as in, "We are friends" φιλοί ἐσμεν).
I understand now. Thank you, Jason.

Re: Present Tense

Posted: August 15th, 2011, 6:36 pm
by David Ting
So, again, make sure that you don't use ἐσμέν in the present tense, unless you just mean "we are" (as in, "We are friends" φιλοί ἐσμεν).
Do we always place the present indicative of εἰμι at the end?

"I am good" καλος εἰμι instead of εἰμι λαλος

"I am a man" ἀνθρωπος εἰμι instead of εἰμι ἀνθρωπος

Re: Present Tense

Posted: August 15th, 2011, 8:38 pm
by David Lim
David Ting wrote:
So, again, make sure that you don't use ἐσμέν in the present tense, unless you just mean "we are" (as in, "We are friends" φιλοί ἐσμεν).
Do we always place the present indicative of εἰμι at the end?

"I am good" καλος εἰμι instead of εἰμι λαλος

"I am a man" ἀνθρωπος εἰμι instead of εἰμι ἀνθρωπος
The predicate is usually in front because it is the predicate rather than the verb itself that is usually the focus. However it is not a rule so exceptions are not uncommon, such as "το φρεαρ εστιν βαθυ" = "the well is deep" (John 4:11) and "η μαρτυρια μου ουκ εστιν αληθης" = "my testimony is not true" (John 5:31) and "εν τουτω ο λογος εστιν ο αληθινος" = "in this the word is the true [word]" (John 4:37). Notice that in the last example we cannot rearrange it into "εν τουτω ο λογος ο αληθινος εστιν" as it would be ambiguous because "ο λογος ο αληθινος" is usually understood as "the true word".

Re: Present Tense

Posted: August 16th, 2011, 5:15 am
by David Ting
Thank you, David. I understand now. I like your examples very much :)