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Mark 14:8 ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν
Posted: August 5th, 2012, 7:21 am
by Jonathan Robie
Mark 14:8 wrote:ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν, προέλαβεν μυρίσαι τὸ σῶμά μου εἰς τὸν ἐνταφιασμόν.
In most translations, ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν is translated something like "she did what she could". To me, this doesn't seem to fit the context - surely she could have sold the nard and given it to the poor, as they suggested.
ἔχω can mean many different things - are there other ways to understand this that might make more sense in this context? Or is there a better way to understand the traditional interpretation in this context?
Re: Mark 14:8 ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν
Posted: August 5th, 2012, 8:50 am
by cwconrad
Jonathan Robie wrote:Mark 14:8 wrote:ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν, προέλαβεν μυρίσαι τὸ σῶμά μου εἰς τὸν ἐνταφιασμόν.
In most translations, ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν is translated something like "she did what she could". To me, this doesn't seem to fit the context - surely she could have sold the nard and given it to the poor, as they suggested.
ἔχω can mean many different things - are there other ways to understand this that might make more sense in this context? Or is there a better way to understand the traditional interpretation in this context?
I suppose that one could phrase it, "She did something that was in her power" -- the implication being that there are other things that she might have done, but this is the one that she chose to do. I really think that this fits well enough within the usage set forth in BDAG, s.v. ἑχω:
5. be in a position to do someth., can, be able, ἔ. w. inf. foll. (Hom. et al.; cp. Eur., Hec. 761; Hdt. 1, 49; Pla., Phd. p. 76d; Demosth., Ep. 2, 22; Theocr. 10, 37 τὸν τρόπον οὐκ ἔχω εἰπεῖν=I cannot specify the manner; Lucian, Dial. Mort. 21, 2, Hermot. 55; Epict. 1, 9, 32; 2, 2, 24 al.; Ael. Aristid. 51, 50 K.=27 p. 546 D.: οὐκ ἔχω λέγειν; PPetr II, 12, 1, 16; PAmh 131, 15; Pr 3:27; ApcEsdr 2:24; 3:7; 6:5; TestAbr A 8, p. 86, 13 [Stone p. 20]; Jos., Ant. 1, 338; 2, 58; Just., A I, 19, 5, D. 4, 6 οὐκ ἔχω εἰπεῖν) ἔ. ἀποδοῦναι be able to pay Mt 18:25a; Lk 7:42; 14:14. μὴ ἔ. περισσότερον τι ποιῆσαι be in a position to do nothing more 12:4. οὐδὲν ἔ. ἀντειπεῖν be able to make a reply Ac 4:14; cp. Tit 2:8. ἔ. κατηγορεῖν αὐτοῦ J 8:6 (cp. 9a below, end). ἀσφαλές τι γράψαι οὐκ ἔχω I have nothing definite to write Ac 25:26a; cp. 26b. ἔ. μεταδιδόναι Eph 4:28a. ἔ. τὴν τούτων μνήμην ποιεῖσθαι be able to recall these things to mind 2 Pt 1:15. κατ᾿ οὐδενὸς εἶχεν μείζονος ὀμόσαι he could swear by no one greater Hb 6:13. In the same sense without the actual addition of the inf., which is automatically supplied fr. context (X., An. 2, 1, 9) ὃ ἔσχεν (i.e. ποιῆσαι) ἐποίησεν she has done what she could Mk 14:8.
Re: Mark 14:8 ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν
Posted: August 5th, 2012, 11:46 am
by Stephen Carlson
This is helpful. I suppose that Greek ἔχω + inf. and Eng. "have to" + inf. are "false friends."
Re: Mark 14:8 ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν
Posted: August 5th, 2012, 1:03 pm
by S Walch
Could it be understood to mean "She did what she had [to do]", with a possible δει being behind the thinking (which only occurs 6 times in Mark - compared to the 69 uses of εχω)?
If "She did what she could" was the intended meaning, surely δυναμαι would've been used by the Author rather than εχω, especially as that appears to be how the Author uses δυναμαι both in v7 and in v5.
Re: Mark 14:8 ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν
Posted: August 5th, 2012, 2:46 pm
by Jonathan Robie
cwconrad wrote:I suppose that one could phrase it, "She did something that was in her power" -- the implication being that there are other things that she might have done, but this is the one that she chose to do. I really think that this fits well enough within the usage set forth in BDAG, s.v. ἑχω:...
I'm wondering about the definite article in ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν - doesn't that imply one particular thing, rather than "of the things she could have done, she picked one"?
Stephen Carlson wrote:This is helpful. I suppose that Greek ἔχω + inf. and Eng. "have to" + inf. are "false friends."
I think so.
S Walch wrote:Could it be understood to mean "She did what she had [to do]", with a possible δει being behind the thinking (which only occurs 6 times in Mark - compared to the 69 uses of εχω)?
See Stephen Carlson's reply. If Greek ἔχω + inf. and Eng. "have to" + inf. can be used with the same sense, then this would be a reasonable interpretation.
Earlier, I was pondering whether this might mean something like "she did what she had been given to do", but I'm not convinced that ἔχω can carry that meaning. It would be interesting to look for phrases that combine ἔχω and ποιέω, could there be an idiom of some kind here?
S Walch wrote:If "She did what she could" was the intended meaning, surely δυναμαι would've been used by the Author rather than εχω, especially as that appears to be how the Author uses δυναμαι both in v7 and in v5.
But ἔχω does seem to be used in other places with this meaning, e.g. μὴ ἔχοντος δὲ αὐτοῦ ἀποδοῦναι - him being unable to pay.
Re: Mark 14:8 ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν
Posted: August 5th, 2012, 5:29 pm
by cwconrad
It appears to me that BDAG's definition of the usage of ἔχω + infinitive (cited in my original reply) has been noted but effectively ignored in this discussion. When it's said that the author would surely have used δύναμαι instead of ἔχω, I don't think it's realized that this is a colloquial equivalent of δύναμαι. ἴσχυς is the verbal noun from the root σεχ/σοχ/σχ; ἴσχύω is "be able-bodied, have strength to do something."
LSJ s.v. ἔχω:
III. c. inf., have means or power to do, to be able, c. aor. inf., Il.7.127, 16.110, etc.: c. pres. inf., Od.18.364, etc.; πόλλʼ ἂν λέγειν ἔχοιμι S.Ph.1047: sts. with inf. omitted or supplied from context, ἀλλʼ οὔ πως ἔτι εἶχε he could not, Il.17.354; οἷὰ κʼ ἔχωμεν so far as we be able, Od.15.281; ἐξ οἵων ἔχω S.El.1379; ὅσον εἶχες E.IA1452; ὡς ἔχω Id.Hec.614.
Liddell, H. G., Scott, R., Jones, H. S., & McKenzie, R. (1996). A Greek-English lexicon (750). Oxford: Clarendon Press.
Re: Mark 14:8 ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν
Posted: August 5th, 2012, 5:46 pm
by Jonathan Robie
Jonathan Robie wrote:I'm wondering about the definite article in ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν - doesn't that imply one particular thing, rather than "of the things she could have done, she picked one"?
DOH. That's ὃ, not ὁ. Please ignore what I said above ...
Re: Mark 14:8 ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν
Posted: August 30th, 2012, 12:05 pm
by Jason Hare
Jonathan Robie wrote:Jonathan Robie wrote:I'm wondering about the definite article in ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν - doesn't that imply one particular thing, rather than "of the things she could have done, she picked one"?
DOH. That's ὃ, not ὁ. Please ignore what I said above ...
Right. That's a neuter relative pronoun (ὅς, ἥ, ὅ) rather than a masculine definite article (ὁ, ἡ, τό).

They look the same when you have an enclitic following!
ὅ τε βασιλεὺς καὶ ὁ δοῦλος...
both the king and the servant
Re: Mark 14:8 ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν
Posted: August 30th, 2012, 12:12 pm
by Jason Hare
Stephen Carlson wrote:This is helpful. I suppose that Greek ἔχω + inf. and Eng. "have to" + inf. are "false friends."
But where do you see ἔχω + inf. in a single phrase? The ἔχω here is part of the relative clause (ὅ ἔσχεν). The infinitive (μυρίσαι) is part of the clause that has προέλαβεν as its main verb. There isn't anything here that would even be a "false friend" (
amigo falso) of "have to" in English.
Isn't there also some difference in meaning between ἔσχεν (aorist) and εἶχεν (imperfect) that we should take into account? With an infinitive implied (ποιῆσαι), we can certainly take ἔσχεν as "was able to." This is even listed in LSJ:
c. inf., have means or power to do, to be able, c. aor. inf., Il.7.217, 16.110, etc.: c. pres. inf., Od.18.364, etc.; πόλλ' ἂν λέγειν ἔχοιμι S.Ph.1047: sts. with inf. omitted or supplied from context, ἀλλ' οὔ πως ἔτι εἶχε he could not, Il.17.354; οἷά κ' ἔχωμεν so far as we be able, Od.15.281; ἐξ οἵων ἔχω S.El.1379; ὅσον εἶχες E.IA1452; ὡς ἔχω Id.Hec.614.
ὅ ἔσχεν = ὅ ἔσχεν ποιῆσαι =
what she was able to do
ἐποίησεν =
she did
"She did was she was able."
Re: Mark 14:8 ὃ ἔσχεν ἐποίησεν
Posted: August 30th, 2012, 1:27 pm
by cwconrad
I do believe this thread has come full circle!
ὅπερ ἔδει δεῖξαι.
ὥς φησιν ὁ Εὐκλείδης.