To or about?
Posted: November 20th, 2012, 2:20 pm
Today I was looking at Rom 11:2-4. I am just here quoting the part that is relevant for my question:
οὐκ οἴδατε ἐν Ἠλίᾳ τί λέγει ἡ γραφή, ὡς ἐντυγχάνει τῷ θεῷ κατὰ τοῦ Ἰσραήλ; ... 4 ἀλλὰ τί λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ χρηματισμός; Κατέλιπον ἐμαυτῷ ἑπτακισχιλίους ἄνδρας, οἵτινες οὐκ ἔκαμψαν γόνυ τῇ Βάαλ.
All English versions I have looked at translate the ἐν with either "of" or "about". When I look at the impressive list of senses in Louw and Nida they do not include "about":
a in (location): 83.13
b among (location): 83.9
c on (location): 83.47
d at (location): 83.23
e in (state): 13.8
f into (extension): 84.22
g in union with (association): 89.119
h with (attendant circumstances): 89.80
i with (instrument): 90.10
j with (manner): 89.84
k with regard to (specification): 89.5
l of (substance): 89.141
m to (experiencer): 90.56
n by (agent): 90.6
o by (guarantor): 90.30
p by (means): 89.76
q because (reason): 89.26
r so that (result): 89.48
s when (time): 67.33
t during (time): 67.136
u in (content): 90.23
So, is the meaning here really "about Elijah"? What about "Don't you know what Scripture says to Elijah?" Quite often Scripture is personified and given a voice with the understanding that it is God who is speaking. The disctinction between "it says" and "he says" is often blurred when Scripture is quoted, especially in the book of Hebrews.
In this case, verse 4 clarifies what God said to Elijah where we find the dative pronoun αὐτῷ as the recipient of the divine voice as recorded in Scripture.
The only other instance I could find where most English versions translate ἐν with "about" is ὅτι ἀποροῦμαι ἐν ὑμῖν. Would this not rather by "I am puzzled by you" or "I am puzzled because of you" rather than "I am puzzled about you"? Well, I suppose number k "with regard to" is a possibility. What do you think?
οὐκ οἴδατε ἐν Ἠλίᾳ τί λέγει ἡ γραφή, ὡς ἐντυγχάνει τῷ θεῷ κατὰ τοῦ Ἰσραήλ; ... 4 ἀλλὰ τί λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ χρηματισμός; Κατέλιπον ἐμαυτῷ ἑπτακισχιλίους ἄνδρας, οἵτινες οὐκ ἔκαμψαν γόνυ τῇ Βάαλ.
All English versions I have looked at translate the ἐν with either "of" or "about". When I look at the impressive list of senses in Louw and Nida they do not include "about":
a in (location): 83.13
b among (location): 83.9
c on (location): 83.47
d at (location): 83.23
e in (state): 13.8
f into (extension): 84.22
g in union with (association): 89.119
h with (attendant circumstances): 89.80
i with (instrument): 90.10
j with (manner): 89.84
k with regard to (specification): 89.5
l of (substance): 89.141
m to (experiencer): 90.56
n by (agent): 90.6
o by (guarantor): 90.30
p by (means): 89.76
q because (reason): 89.26
r so that (result): 89.48
s when (time): 67.33
t during (time): 67.136
u in (content): 90.23
So, is the meaning here really "about Elijah"? What about "Don't you know what Scripture says to Elijah?" Quite often Scripture is personified and given a voice with the understanding that it is God who is speaking. The disctinction between "it says" and "he says" is often blurred when Scripture is quoted, especially in the book of Hebrews.
In this case, verse 4 clarifies what God said to Elijah where we find the dative pronoun αὐτῷ as the recipient of the divine voice as recorded in Scripture.
The only other instance I could find where most English versions translate ἐν with "about" is ὅτι ἀποροῦμαι ἐν ὑμῖν. Would this not rather by "I am puzzled by you" or "I am puzzled because of you" rather than "I am puzzled about you"? Well, I suppose number k "with regard to" is a possibility. What do you think?