John 5:4 ἐγίνετο

Forum rules
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Post Reply
David Lim
Posts: 901
Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

John 5:4 ἐγίνετο

Post by David Lim »

[John 5:4 Byz] αγγελος γαρ κατα καιρον κατεβαινεν εν τη κολυμβηθρα και εταρασσεν το υδωρ ο ουν πρωτος εμβας μετα την ταραχην του υδατος υγιης εγινετο ω δηποτε κατειχετο νοσηματι

What exactly does the imperfect tense of "εγινετο" here mean?
δαυιδ λιμ
Stephen Carlson
Posts: 3351
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: John 5:4

Post by Stephen Carlson »

It is general / habitual: would become, suggesting that this single act is part of a larger pattern of similar acts.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
David Lim
Posts: 901
Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

Re: John 5:4

Post by David Lim »

Stephen Carlson wrote:It is general / habitual: would become, suggesting that this single act is part of a larger pattern of similar acts.
So the imperfect is used simply because of the repetition of this disturbance of the pool's water according to the season and the resulting repetition of someone getting well?
δαυιδ λιμ
Stephen Carlson
Posts: 3351
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: John 5:4

Post by Stephen Carlson »

David Lim wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:It is general / habitual: would become, suggesting that this single act is part of a larger pattern of similar acts.
So the imperfect is used simply because of the repetition of this disturbance of the pool's water according to the season and the resulting repetition of someone getting well?
I don't know what work the word "simply" is doing, but, yeah, that's basically how I understand the semantics. Pragmatically, the imperfect is great for backgrounding, which is also going on (cf. the γάρ).
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
David Lim
Posts: 901
Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

Re: John 5:4

Post by David Lim »

Stephen Carlson wrote:
David Lim wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:It is general / habitual: would become, suggesting that this single act is part of a larger pattern of similar acts.
So the imperfect is used simply because of the repetition of this disturbance of the pool's water according to the season and the resulting repetition of someone getting well?
I don't know what work the word "simply" is doing, but, yeah, that's basically how I understand the semantics. Pragmatically, the imperfect is great for backgrounding, which is also going on (cf. the γάρ).
Oh I asked because I wanted to confirm that the imperfect tense here has no connotation of the event of "becoming well" being ongoing at that point.
δαυιδ λιμ
cwconrad
Posts: 2112
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm
Location: Burnsville, NC 28714
Contact:

Re: John 5:4

Post by cwconrad »

I think this is equivalent to a past general condition, setting forth what ordinarily happened when such and such a condition was met; in earlier Greek the protasis would have been formulated in the optative mood, the apodosis in the imperfect indicative.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
David Lim
Posts: 901
Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

Re: John 5:4

Post by David Lim »

cwconrad wrote:I think this is equivalent to a past general condition, setting forth what ordinarily happened when such and such a condition was met; in earlier Greek the protasis would have been formulated in the optative mood, the apodosis in the imperfect indicative.
I see. Thanks for both your answers!
δαυιδ λιμ
Post Reply

Return to “New Testament”