ταῦτα λέγων *ἐφώνει*· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.

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Jonathan Robie
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ταῦτα λέγων *ἐφώνει*· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Luke 8:8 wrote:ταῦτα λέγων ἐφώνει· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.
What is the force of the imperfect ἐφώνει?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Wes Wood
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Re: ταῦτα λέγων *ἐφώνει*· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.

Post by Wes Wood »

Not that my thoughts are going to help much here, but I have wondered if this indicates that he raised his voice while he was speaking. If this were the case, I am still not sure whether this was during the entire speech or for the last admonition only.

In my mind's eye I could envision a classroom situation where a teacher is instructing students about how to complete a task and a few students are not paying attention. In that case the teacher might raise his or her voice (again?) and emphasize the fact that the information was important. In this case it might be done to address those in the crowd who had started to murmur. It seems to me that the message he was conveying could sting.

I am sorry that this is more musing than substance.
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ
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Re: ταῦτα λέγων *ἐφώνει*· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.

Post by cwconrad »

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Luke 8:8 wrote:ταῦτα λέγων ἐφώνει· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.
What is the force of the imperfect ἐφώνει?
I think that Wes is right here: he stressed this. But I also think that the imperfect tense here suggests repetition: this was something that he would do regularly. Although Mark doesn't use the imperfect, he closes out his account of Jesus' parables with this pointed admonition about "getting the point":
Mark 4:21 Καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς· μήτι ἔρχεται ὁ λύχνος ἵνα ὑπὸ τὸν μόδιον τεθῇ ἢ ὑπὸ τὴν κλίνην; οὐχ ἵνα ἐπὶ τὴν λυχνίαν τεθῇ; 22 οὐ γάρ ἐστιν κρυπτὸν ἐὰν μὴ ἵνα φανερωθῇ, οὐδὲ ἐγένετο ἀπόκρυφον ἀλλ᾿ ἵνα ἔλθῃ εἰς φανερόν. 23 εἴ τις ἔχει ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω. 24 Καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς· βλέπετε τί ἀκούετε. ἐν ᾧ μέτρῳ μετρεῖτε μετρηθήσεται ὑμῖν καὶ προστεθήσεται ὑμῖν. 25 ὃς γὰρ ἔχει, δοθήσεται αὐτῷ· καὶ ὃς οὐκ ἔχει, καὶ ὃ ἔχει ἀρθήσεται ἀπ᾿ αὐτοῦ.
and Mark adds:
Mark 4:33 Καὶ τοιαύταις παραβολαῖς πολλαῖς ἐλάλει αὐτοῖς τὸν λόγον καθὼς ἠδύναντο ἀκούειν· 34 χωρὶς δὲ παραβολῆς οὐκ ἐλάλει αὐτοῖς, κατ᾿ ἰδίαν δὲ τοῖς ἰδίοις μαθηταῖς ἐπέλυεν πάντα.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: ταῦτα λέγων *ἐφώνει*· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.

Post by Jonathan Robie »

cwconrad wrote:I think that Wes is right here: he stressed this. But I also think that the imperfect tense here suggests repetition: this was something that he would do regularly.
Something like this: As he said these things, he would call out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear”? If so, that implies that he was saying this more than once in the telling of the Parable of the Sower to the crowd (ταῦτα λέγων)?

I'm trying to square this with the text that follows:
ταῦτα λέγων ἐφώνει· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.

9 Ἐπηρώτων δὲ αὐτὸν οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ τίς αὕτη εἴη ἡ παραβολή. 10 ὁ δὲ εἶπεν· Ὑμῖν δέδοται γνῶναι τὰ μυστήρια τῆς βασιλείας τοῦ θεοῦ, τοῖς δὲ λοιποῖς ἐν παραβολαῖς, ἵνα βλέποντες μὴ βλέπωσιν καὶ ἀκούοντες μὴ συνιῶσιν.
In verses 1-8, Jesus seems to be sowing seed, and crying out Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω. If verse 9 stood alone, I would assume that none of the people who heard 1-8 got it except for his disciples, and he was keeping it secret by telling parables. But the parable suggests that the whole point of sowing seed is that some will fall on good soil, and why would he repeatedly urge them to listen if nobody would listen? I wonder if οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ in verse 9 includes anyone who heard and accepted what he said in verses 1-8 or just the 12 apostles.

In this chapter, Luke is talking about the crowd and the disciples, I don't see how he refers to people who are neither the generic crowd of people or the 12 disciples. Does οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ include them in verse 9 or not? In verse 22, οἱ μαθηταὶ seems to be a small enough group to fit in a boat.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
cwconrad
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Re: ταῦτα λέγων *ἐφώνει*· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.

Post by cwconrad »

Jonathan Robie wrote:
cwconrad wrote:I think that Wes is right here: he stressed this. But I also think that the imperfect tense here suggests repetition: this was something that he would do regularly.
Something like this: As he said these things, he would call out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear”? If so, that implies that he was saying this more than once in the telling of the Parable of the Sower to the crowd (ταῦτα λέγων)?

I'm trying to square this with the text that follows:
ταῦτα λέγων ἐφώνει· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.

9 Ἐπηρώτων δὲ αὐτὸν οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ τίς αὕτη εἴη ἡ παραβολή. 10 ὁ δὲ εἶπεν· Ὑμῖν δέδοται γνῶναι τὰ μυστήρια τῆς βασιλείας τοῦ θεοῦ, τοῖς δὲ λοιποῖς ἐν παραβολαῖς, ἵνα βλέποντες μὴ βλέπωσιν καὶ ἀκούοντες μὴ συνιῶσιν.
In verses 1-8, Jesus seems to be sowing seed, and crying out Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω. If verse 9 stood alone, I would assume that none of the people who heard 1-8 got it except for his disciples, and he was keeping it secret by telling parables. But the parable suggests that the whole point of sowing seed is that some will fall on good soil, and why would he repeatedly urge them to listen if nobody would listen? I wonder if οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ in verse 9 includes anyone who heard and accepted what he said in verses 1-8 or just the 12 apostles.

In this chapter, Luke is talking about the crowd and the disciples, I don't see how he refers to people who are neither the generic crowd of people or the 12 disciples. Does οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ include them in verse 9 or not? In verse 22, οἱ μαθηταὶ seems to be a small enough group to fit in a boat.
The issues here do indeed involve the question of who really does understand what Jesus is getting at. There are questions of what Mark's text in Mk 4:9-13 means and of how -- if Mark's gospel is earliest -- Matthew and Luke render the same tradition. My own thinking on this (or what I thought ten years ago, at least) is set forth in my notes on Mk 4 in my brief commentary on Mark (http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/%7Ecwconrad/Mark/). I was deeply influenced by Frank Kermode's The Genesis of Secrecy (http://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Secrecy-I ... nk+Kermode), which revolves largely about this particular sequence in the synoptic gospels. These are matters that are really not open to discussion in this forum; anyone who wishes may go fishing.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: ταῦτα λέγων *ἐφώνει*· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Jonathan Robie wrote:
cwconrad wrote:I think that Wes is right here: he stressed this. But I also think that the imperfect tense here suggests repetition: this was something that he would do regularly.
Something like this: As he said these things, he would call out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear”? If so, that implies that he was saying this more than once in the telling of the Parable of the Sower to the crowd (ταῦτα λέγων)?
Last week, someone in my Sunday School class suggested that the imperfect ἐφώνει in the phrase ταῦτα λέγων ἐφώνει might also imply that Jesus told this parable many times, and would say Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω when he told this parable.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
cwconrad
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Re: ταῦτα λέγων *ἐφώνει*· Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω.

Post by cwconrad »

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:
cwconrad wrote:I think that Wes is right here: he stressed this. But I also think that the imperfect tense here suggests repetition: this was something that he would do regularly.
Something like this: As he said these things, he would call out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear”? If so, that implies that he was saying this more than once in the telling of the Parable of the Sower to the crowd (ταῦτα λέγων)?
Last week, someone in my Sunday School class suggested that the imperfect ἐφώνει in the phrase ταῦτα λέγων ἐφώνει might also imply that Jesus told this parable many times, and would say Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω when he told this parable.
Mark 4:9 uses it with this parable, but then look at Mark 4:21-25; there's a suggestion that people who listen to Jesus' parables may very well hear just what they want to hear -- or something like that:
Mark 4:21 Καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς· μήτι ἔρχεται ὁ λύχνος ἵνα ὑπὸ τὸν μόδιον τεθῇ ἢ ὑπὸ τὴν κλίνην; οὐχ ἵνα ἐπὶ τὴν λυχνίαν τεθῇ; 22 οὐ γάρ ἐστιν κρυπτὸν ἐὰν μὴ ἵνα φανερωθῇ, οὐδὲ ἐγένετο ἀπόκρυφον ἀλλ᾿ ἵνα ἔλθῃ εἰς φανερόν. 23 εἴ τις ἔχει ὦτα ἀκούειν ἀκουέτω. 24 Καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς· βλέπετε τί ἀκούετε. ἐν ᾧ μέτρῳ μετρεῖτε μετρηθήσεται ὑμῖν καὶ προστεθήσεται ὑμῖν. 25 ὃς γὰρ ἔχει, δοθήσεται αὐτῷ· καὶ ὃς οὐκ ἔχει, καὶ ὃ ἔχει ἀρθήσεται ἀπ᾿ αὐτοῦ.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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