τινας τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς ἐκκλησίας Acts 12:1 targeting who?

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Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

τινας τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς ἐκκλησίας Acts 12:1 targeting who?

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Acts 12:1 wrote:Κατ’ ἐκεῖνον δὲ τὸν καιρὸν ἐπέβαλεν Ἡρῴδης ὁ βασιλεὺς τὰς χεῖρας κακῶσαί τινας τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς ἐκκλησίας.
My fourth question is about τινας τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς ἐκκλησίας. οἱ ἀπὸ τῆς ἐκκλησίας as used here is the only such usage of ἀπό with τῆς ἐκκλησίας. Is it membership / close association as BDAG says? I'm thinking that it could it mean something like not affecting the larger group, leaving the larger group untouched. It seems that Herod was targeting a few well-known leaders (or the like), not the general membership of the Church.

The syntactically parallel passages seem to suggest that just a couple of individuals, who belonged to the group, but were only a few among the group, are who are mentioned:
Luke 19:39 wrote:τινες τῶν Φαρισαίων ἀπὸ τοῦ ὄχλου εἶπον πρὸς αὐτόν
Acts 15:5 wrote:τινες τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς αἱρέσεως τῶν Φαρισαίων
The major part of the crowd are not portrayed as saying that, and the majority of the other Pharisees were unmoved.

What verb would most logically represent the meaning of the preposition?
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
cwconrad
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Re: τινας τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς ἐκκλησίας Acts 12:1 targeting who?

Post by cwconrad »

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Acts 12:1 wrote:Κατ’ ἐκεῖνον δὲ τὸν καιρὸν ἐπέβαλεν Ἡρῴδης ὁ βασιλεὺς τὰς χεῖρας κακῶσαί τινας τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς ἐκκλησίας.
My fourth question is about τινας τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς ἐκκλησίας. οἱ ἀπὸ τῆς ἐκκλησίας as used here is the only such usage of ἀπό with τῆς ἐκκλησίας. Is it membership / close association as BDAG says? I'm thinking that it could it mean something like not affecting the larger group, leaving the larger group untouched. It seems that Herod was targeting a few well-known leaders (or the like), not the general membership of the Church.

The syntactically parallel passages seem to suggest that just a couple of individuals, who belonged to the group, but were only a few among the group, are who are mentioned:
Luke 19:39 wrote:τινες τῶν Φαρισαίων ἀπὸ τοῦ ὄχλου εἶπον πρὸς αὐτόν
Acts 15:5 wrote:τινες τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς αἱρέσεως τῶν Φαρισαίων
The major part of the crowd are not portrayed as saying that, and the majority of the other Pharisees were unmoved.

What verb would most logically represent the meaning of the preposition?
My initial thought here was that this ἀπὸ with the genitive was an intensive partitive usage. That seems to be what BDAG s.v. ἀπό, 1.f is indicating:
f. as a substitute for the partitive gen. (Hdt. 6, 27, 2; Thu. 7, 87, 6; PPetr III, 11, 20; PIand 8, 6; Kuhring 20; Rossberg 22; Johannessohn, Präp. 17) τίνα ἀ. τῶν δύο; Mt 27:21, cp. Lk 9:38; 19:39 (like PTebt 299, 13; 1 Macc 1:13; 3:24; Sir 6:6; 46:8). τὰ ἀ. τοῦ πλοίου pieces of the ship Ac 27:44. ἐκχεῶ ἀ. τοῦ πνεύματός μου Ac 2:17f (Jo 3:1f). λαμβάνειν ἀ. τ. καρπῶν get a share of the vintage Mk 12:2 (cp. Just., A I, 65, 5 μεταλαβεῖν ἀπὸ τοῦ . . . ἄρτου).—Of foods (as in Da 1:13, 4:33a; 2 Macc 7:1) ἐσθίειν ἀ. τ. ψιχίων eat some of the crumbs Mt 15:27; Mk 7:28. χορτάζεσθαι ἀ. τινος eat one’s fill of someth. Lk 16:21. αἴρειν ἀ. τῶν ἰχθύων pick up the remnants of the fish Mk 6:43. ἐνέγκατε ἀ. τ. ὀψαρίων bring some of the fish J 21:10 (the only instance of this usage in J; s. M-EBoismard, Le chapitre 21 de Saint Jean: RB 54 [’47] 492).—Of drink (cp. Sir 26:12) πίνειν ἀπὸ τ. γενήματος τῆς ἀμπέλου drink the product of the vine Lk 22:18.
To be sure, the BDAG entry chiefly concerns eating and drinking, but it would seem to me that the usage does extend beyond that sphere. Consider, for instance, Matt 27:21
ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ ὁ ἡγεμὼν εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· τίνα θέλετε ἀπὸ τῶν δύο ἀπολύσω ὑμῖν;
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
Stephen Hughes
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Re: τινας τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς ἐκκλησίας Acts 12:1 targeting who?

Post by Stephen Hughes »

cwconrad wrote:My initial thought here was that this ἀπὸ with the genitive was an intensive partitive usage. That seems to be what BDAG s.v. ἀπό, 1.f is indicating:
It could be noted for clarity's sake that BDAG classifies our Acts 12:1 (and 15:5 "τινες τῶν ἀπὸ τῆς αἱρέσεως τῶν Φαρισαίων") under 3.β.b together with the countries and regions of origin.

My own first reaction was to do something similar to BDAG too - to group the usages with the country / region of origin, but in the list of those disputing with Stephen:
Acts 6:9 wrote:Ἀνέστησαν δέ τινες τῶν ἐκ τῆς συναγωγῆς τῆς λεγομένης Λιβερτίνων, καὶ Κυρηναίων, καὶ Ἀλεξανδρέων, καὶ τῶν ἀπὸ Κιλικίας καὶ Ἀσίας, συζητοῦντες τῷ Στεφάνῳ.
there is a difference in construction between the adjectival forms (Κυρηναίων and Ἀλεξανδρέων) and the nominative ones (Κιλικίας and Ἀσίας).

The simple partitive genitive as in τινες τῶν ... Κυρηναίων, καὶ Ἀλεξανδρέων for disputants is what we regularly see, such as Mark 12:37 Τότε ἀπεκρίθησάν τινες τῶν γραμματέων καὶ Φαρισαίων, λέγοντες, Διδάσκαλε, θέλομεν ἀπὸ σοῦ σημεῖον ἰδεῖν.

I agree with you (Carl) that the two usages in Acts (12:1 and 15:5) that we are discussing are more than that. They seem to me to denote that only a select few were targeted by Herod Agrippa I.
_________
Not so relevant as had initially thought it might be, but never-the-less it could not be harmful, so here is a short excerpt from The History of the Peloponnesian War with slightly more complex syntax combining both the substanivised adjectival form for the group to which they belong and the ἀπό with the nominal of the region from which they came.
Thucydides 6.2.3 wrote: Ἰλίου δὲ ἁλισκομένου τῶν Τρώων τινὲς διαφυγόντες Ἀχαιοὺς πλοίοις ἀφικνοῦνται πρὸς τὴν Σικελίαν, καὶ ὅμοροι τοῖς Σικανοῖς οἰκήσαντες ξύμπαντες μὲν Ἔλυμοι ἐκλήθησαν, πόλεις δ᾽ αὐτῶν Ἔρυξ τε καὶ Ἔγεστα. προσξυνῴκησαν δὲ αὐτοῖς καὶ Φωκέων τινὲς τῶν ἀπὸ Τροίας τότε χειμῶνι ἐς Λιβύην πρῶτον, ἔπειτα ἐς Σικελίαν ἀπ᾽ αὐτῆς κατενεχθέντες.
On the fall of Ilium, some of the Trojans escaped from the Achaeans, came in ships to Sicily, and settled next to the Sicanians under the general name of Elymi; their towns being called Eryx and Egesta. With them settled some of the Phocians carried on their way from Troy by a storm, first to Libya, and afterwards from thence to Sicily.
Helps: Imagining the word order of Φωκέων and τινὲς changed may help with this phrase - Φωκέων² τινὲς¹ τῶν ἀπὸ Τροίας (these three words specify which Phoceans are being talked about) τότε χειμῶνι (instrumental dative)... κατενεχθέντες ( < aorist passive participle of καταφέρειν agreeing with τινὲς)
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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