I am having some trouble finding meaning in this phrase. It is about as difficult as reading Proverbs, or it looks like a clever almost meaningless combination of high-sounding words that characterise the slogans used in propaganda.Romans 12:11 wrote:τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί
Rom.12:11 τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί
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Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
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Rom.12:11 τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Re: Rom.12:11 τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί
I will lay bare the the unscientific state of my own semantic probing by confessing that I've given thought frequently over the years to the meaning of σπουδή and have come to associate it with the German word Fleiß. I was more than a little surprised at the consistent and regular usage of that word with moral overtones of "righteousness" in my early days of study in Munich -- something like "diligence", the antithesis being "laziness." I've associated σπουδή also with the Latin word studium, wondering even whether it's etymologically cognate to σπουδή -- particularly in the phrase Tacitus uses for an unbiased attitude toward persons and events: sine ira et studio, something like "steering clear of animosity as well as of favoritism". I take Tacitus' studium here to mean something like "intensely positive feeling."Stephen Hughes wrote:I am having some trouble finding meaning in this phrase. It is about as difficult as reading Proverbs, or it looks like a clever almost meaningless combination of high-sounding words that characterise the slogans used in propaganda.Romans 12:11 wrote:τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί
Turning then to the Pauline phrase, τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί, I'd understand it as "Don't hold back on your enthusiasm" -- as if in thus admonishing his audience, Paul wants to underscore whole-hearted commitment to virtuous behavior.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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Re: Rom.12:11 τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί
As with all language learning, beyond the simple act of rôte learning a few thousand words with glosses, one must struggle with the vocabulary till it begins to make sense within its own Greek-only context. That involves both bringing the entirety of our own human experience and that of others we know to the learning, and the exploration and struggle with synonyms and the vague topic of idiomatic usage. That lets a second language go beyond an dissociation and encoded form of foreignness, to becoming a language.cwconrad wrote:the unscientific state of my own semantic probing
I think that I agree with that. It seems to be a word with as much emotional value as it has a "meaning".wondering ... σπουδή
With an understood ἐστέ imperative?cwconrad wrote:Turning then to the Pauline phrase, τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί, I'd understand it as "Don't hold back on your enthusiasm" -- as if in thus admonishing his audience, Paul wants to underscore whole-hearted commitment to virtuous behavior.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Re: Rom.12:11 τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί
It's pretty obvious, isn't it, that the whole chapter is παραίνεσις, esp. verses 9-13. Direct imperatives begin again in verse 14.Stephen Hughes wrote:With an understood ἐστέ imperative?cwconrad wrote:Turning then to the Pauline phrase, τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί, I'd understand it as "Don't hold back on your enthusiasm" -- as if in thus admonishing his audience, Paul wants to underscore whole-hearted commitment to virtuous behavior.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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Re: Rom.12:11 τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί
To this I would add immediate context, and author. In Paul you have a highly educated and intelligent individual with a particular kind of education (rabbinic) and a particular kind of focus (gospel). Like many such highly focussed and capable individuals, he seems to adapt some expressions for his own purpose. On a quick scan, it seems that he always uses σπουδή to convey this idea of fervency and earnestness. Also, as noted, this (Rom 12:9-13) is a fast moving, almost 'staccato', list of exhortations within which "τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί" strikes me as fitting very nicely, whereas it might not do so with another author or in another context.Stephen Hughes wrote:As with all language learning, beyond the simple act of rôte learning a few thousand words with glosses, one must struggle with the vocabulary till it begins to make sense within its own Greek-only context. That involves both bringing the entirety of our own human experience and that of others we know to the learning, and the exploration and struggle with synonyms and the vague topic of idiomatic usage. That lets a second language go beyond an dissociation and encoded form of foreignness, to becoming a language.
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Re: Rom.12:11 τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί
I concur with this. This has always been my favorite Pauline encapsulation of moral exhortation, although he may achieve more with less in Phil. 2:1-5.Thomas Dolhanty wrote:To this I would add immediate context, and author. In Paul you have a highly educated and intelligent individual with a particular kind of education (rabbinic) and a particular kind of focus (gospel). Like many such highly focussed and capable individuals, he seems to adapt some expressions for his own purpose. On a quick scan, it seems that he always uses σπουδή to convey this idea of fervency and earnestness. Also, as noted, this (Rom 12:9-13) is a fast moving, almost 'staccato', list of exhortations within which "τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί" strikes me as fitting very nicely, whereas it might not do so with another author or in another context.Stephen Hughes wrote:As with all language learning, beyond the simple act of rôte learning a few thousand words with glosses, one must struggle with the vocabulary till it begins to make sense within its own Greek-only context. That involves both bringing the entirety of our own human experience and that of others we know to the learning, and the exploration and struggle with synonyms and the vague topic of idiomatic usage. That lets a second language go beyond an dissociation and encoded form of foreignness, to becoming a language.
I've also always felt that Rom 12:9, Ἡ ἀγάπη ἀνυπόκριτος, belongs with 1 Cor 13; it mocks simplistic summations of Pauline morality. The English version of it I find most appealing is, "Love must not be a matter of play-acting."
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)