Blessed by the Spirit

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Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1318
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: Blessed by the Spirit

Post by Barry Hofstetter » June 6th, 2018, 8:27 am

m_bauer wrote:
June 6th, 2018, 6:17 am

Hi Barry Hofstetter,
thank you for discussing first.
-1450
The Greek dative does duty for three cases: the dative proper, and two lost cases, the instrumental and the locative.

a. The dative derives its name (ἡ δοτικὴ πτῶσις, casus dativus) from the use with διδόναι (1469).
There is a link to the "give", διδόναι , how would you overlook that?
https://grammars.alpheios.net/smyth/xht ... .18_div3.9
I'm sorry, but how does the use of the dative with δίδωμι prove anything that you are trying to say? The dative case is used as the indirect object for a number of verbs, but do you see δίδωμι anywhere in the passage? The use of the dative as indirect object has nothing to do with Matt 5:3.
Barry Hofstetter wrote:You appear to have created this category out of whole cloth.
m_baur wrote:Is there somewhere to ask for permission? Indeed not. "Cannot be seen other than." from Jesus's or Matthew's sight, it says.
You don't have to ask permission, but you do have either to use standard terminology, so people have an idea of what you are talking about, or define your terms carefully. You will not find the term "economic dative" in the grammars" or in any discussions on the use of the dative on this passage.
m_baur wrote:-πτωχοί was logical accusative, if one assumed a passive, as I did. Somewhere in Smith's dative conception this is written, too.
How would you overlook that?

Well, this is trivial.
  • The house (nominative) is given to the cat (Dative).
    (nominative) Someone gives a (accusative) house to the cat. (dative)
Yes, we all know that in passive constructions the nominative subject would be the accusative direct object and the agent would become the nominative subject if the sentence were flipped active. What you appear to be doing here is cherry picking concepts to bolster whatever claim you are making, but you appear to have selected concepts which don't relate. So nobody is overlooking anything -- I am simply pointing out anomalies in your post, things that don't fit what I think is your argument (though your English is so poor I'm still not sure).

Two things: 1) The moderators would still like to see your screen name have a better match to your real name. PM one of us to take of that. 2) I suspect your Greek is even more restricted than your English. Have you actually studied the langauge, or are you just reading grammars or other secondary sources? Until you can show some proof of actual accomplishment or progress in studying the language, expect your posts to be rejected.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
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