Can both βοάω and βοόω take the form βοῶντος? Would the morphology permit a silly reader to think this means "I am a voice turning into an ox in the wilderness"?John 1:23 wrote:Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
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A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
That is a silly question!!Jonathan Robie wrote:Can both βοάω and βοόω take the form βοῶντος? Would the morphology permit a silly reader to think this means "I am a voice turning into an ox in the wilderness"?John 1:23 wrote:Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
The answer is: No. The gen. sg. pres. act .ptc. of βοοῦν (βοόω if you prefer the dubious 1 sg. uncontracted lemma) is βοοῦντος. The phonological rationale: ο + ο contract into ου, whereas α + ο contract into ω.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
I thought of it as an entertaining way to ask a morphology question. Carl, of course, is right, but even if the two forms were identical, context would prevent any confusion, just as in English we don't confuse the meanings of run in "James will run the race" and "James will run the business."cwconrad wrote:That is a silly question!!Jonathan Robie wrote:Can both βοάω and βοόω take the form βοῶντος? Would the morphology permit a silly reader to think this means "I am a voice turning into an ox in the wilderness"?John 1:23 wrote:Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
The answer is: No. The gen. sg. pres. act .ptc. of βοοῦν (βοόω if you prefer the dubious 1 sg. uncontracted lemma) is βοοῦντος. The phonological rationale: ο + ο contract into ου, whereas α + ο contract into ω.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
I really had meant to write:cwconrad wrote:That is a silly question!!Jonathan Robie wrote:Can both βοάω and βοόω take the form βοῶντος? Would the morphology permit a silly reader to think this means "I am a voice turning into an ox in the wilderness"?John 1:23 wrote:Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
The answer is: No. The gen. sg. pres. act .ptc. of βοοῦν (βοόω if you prefer the dubious 1 sg. uncontracted lemma) is βοοῦντος. The phonological rationale: ο + ο contract into ου, whereas α + ο contract into ω.
That is a silly question!!
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
A Hegelian compromise here might be 'bellowing like an ox'. Definitely a little less silly. Its validation, of course, would require establishing a common root for βοῦς and βοάω.cwconrad wrote:John 1:23 wrote:
Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
Tús maith leath na hoibre.
Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
I had thought that Hegelian "compromise" was a "sublimation" of "thesis" and "antithesis" to a higher level, but be that as it may, I confess that I have toyed with the thought that βοή might be related somehow to the noun βοὺς, and that it might indeed mean essentially "bellow like a bull". I suppose that's not impossible, but I wonder if it can be proven. On the other hand, there's a proverb cited by the watchman atop the roof of Agamemnon's palace in Aeschylus' Agamemnon 36-7:Robert Crowe wrote:A Hegelian compromise here might be 'bellowing like an ox'. Definitely a little less silly. Its validation, of course, would require establishing a common root for βοῦς and βοάω.cwconrad wrote:John 1:23 wrote:
Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
He would like to shout aloud a warning that it's not safe for Agamemnon to return to this palace and to the queen who lies in wait for him, but "the ox (not the cat) has got his tongue." Here the βοῦς means silence.τὰ δ’ ἄλλα σιγῶ· βοῦς ἐπὶ γλώσσῃ μέγας
37 βέβηκεν·
Another perspective on βοή is offered by the common verb βοηθεῖν, ordinarily rendered "help" but pretty clearly revealing an etymological link suggesting "come a-running in response to an outcry for help" rather than "come-a-running in response to the bellowing of the bull in the field." At any rate, I don't think there's much mileage in the quest for a link between βοῦς and βοή/βοὰν.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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- Location: Northern Ireland
Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
Tantalising at first sight, given the poet's love of antithesis. But I take your point that it doesn't mean that βοῦς and βοή are related. Pierre Chantraine makes no reference to any relation. He does mention the compound βοηθεῖν as 'to run towards a call (for help)'.τὰ δ’ ἄλλα σιγῶ· βοῦς ἐπὶ γλώσσῃ μέγας
Anyhow, I, for one, am happy to put bellowing bulls to sleep.
Tús maith leath na hoibre.
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Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
And the one time that it's attested in literature it doesn't seem to mean that at all. LSJ:Robert Crowe wrote:A Hegelian compromise here might be 'bellowing like an ox'. Definitely a little less silly. Its validation, of course, would require establishing a common root for βοῦς and βοάω.cwconrad wrote:John 1:23 wrote:
Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
βοόω,change into an ox, Eust.70.28.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
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Re: A silly question: Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ
If you've ever heard a calf bawling for its mother (and mother cow replying) - that's exactly the sort of hollerin' impliedRobert Crowe wrote:A Hegelian compromise here might be 'bellowing like an ox'. Definitely a little less silly. Its validation, of course, would require establishing a common root for βοῦς and βοάω.cwconrad wrote:John 1:23 wrote:
Ἐγὼ φωνὴ βοῶντος ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ