Rev 12:2 βασανιζομένη τεκεῖν

Forum rules
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Post Reply
Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Rev 12:2 βασανιζομένη τεκεῖν

Post by Stephen Hughes » April 7th, 2016, 10:25 am

Revelation 12:2 (NA-UBS) wrote:καὶ ἐν γαστρὶ ἔχουσα, καὶ κράζει ὠδίνουσα καὶ βασανιζομένη τεκεῖν
What type of infinitive is τεκεῖν?

My first shot is to say that it is an infinitive indicating the result of the controlling verb. On second thoughts, though, the torture, or severe discomforture accompanies the birthing rather than causes it.

Is it alternatively possible to split an infinitive from the controlling verb - taking κράζει ... τεκεῖν together?

Another aspect of this verse was discussed a few years ago in this thread.
0 x


Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

cwconrad
Posts: 2112
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm
Location: Burnsville, NC 28714
Contact:

Re: Rev 12:2 βασανιζομένη τεκεῖν

Post by cwconrad » April 7th, 2016, 2:22 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Revelation 12:2 (NA-UBS) wrote:καὶ ἐν γαστρὶ ἔχουσα, καὶ κράζει ὠδίνουσα καὶ βασανιζομένη τεκεῖν
What type of infinitive is τεκεῖν?

My first shot is to say that it is an infinitive indicating the result of the controlling verb. On second thoughts, though, the torture, or severe discomforture accompanies the birthing rather than causes it.

Is it alternatively possible to split an infinitive from the controlling verb - taking κράζει ... τεκεῖν together?

Another aspect of this verse was discussed a few years ago in this thread.
I'd say you understand very well what it "means" but you'd like to explain the Greek usage, in which exercise you are βασανιζόμενος. On the one hand, I'm halfway inclined to say that this isn't Greek; but on the other hand, I think we understand very well what it means. I'm "sorely tempted" to explain the participle as implicitly meaning "desirous" and the infinitive as complementary: "she is laboring hard to give birth."
0 x
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

George F Somsel
Posts: 172
Joined: May 9th, 2011, 10:11 am

Re: Rev 12:2 βασανιζομένη τεκεῖν

Post by George F Somsel » April 8th, 2016, 1:19 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Is it alternatively possible to split an infinitive from the controlling verb - taking κράζει ... τεκεῖν together?
A split infinitive? Horrors !! :D
0 x
george
gfsomsel



… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.



- Jan Hus

cwconrad
Posts: 2112
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm
Location: Burnsville, NC 28714
Contact:

Re: Rev 12:2 βασανιζομένη τεκεῖν

Post by cwconrad » April 8th, 2016, 5:57 am

George F Somsel wrote:Stephen Hughes wrote:
Is it alternatively possible to split an infinitive from the controlling verb - taking κράζει ... τεκεῖν together?
A split infinitive? Horrors !! :D
I don't say that he actually did that (I'd still rather understand it with βασανιζομένη), but the guy who wrote "ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος" might just as well have written κραζει ... τεκεῖν -- just imagine King Richard: κράζει ἵππον τινὰ κτήσασθαι.
0 x
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Post Reply

Return to “New Testament”