νεκροὶ in John 5:25

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Jacob Rhoden
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νεκροὶ in John 5:25

Post by Jacob Rhoden »

ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἔρχεται ὥρα ⸋καὶ νῦν ἐστιν⸌ ὅτε οἱ νεκροὶ ⸀ἀκούσουσιν τῆς φωνῆς τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ °οἱ ἀκούσαντες ⸁ζήσουσιν.
There are some in the past who were keen to suggest that John had no concept of future eschatology, suggesting that a later redactor has "amended John" to put back in "orthodox" eschatology. So it was of great interest to me when I read in NAC commentary:
The use of the term νεκροὶ for “the dead” in v. 25 means “dead bodies” and not merely some form of spiritual death. This concept is inherent in the Jewish understanding of resurrection, and it has been adopted in traditional Christian theology.
However BDAG (definition 2) for this word, explicitly defines spiritually dead within the semantic range for νεκροὶ. My greek is not yet that great, so I wondered if someone here could clear this up for me?
Jonathan Robie
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Re: νεκροὶ in John 5:25

Post by Jonathan Robie »

You can trust BDAG. I don't think the Greek word tells you whether this refers to the physically dead or the spiritually dead, you'll have to get that from context.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
cwconrad
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Re: νεκροὶ in John 5:25

Post by cwconrad »

Jonathan Robie wrote:You can trust BDAG. I don't think the Greek word tells you whether this refers to the physically dead or the spiritually dead, you'll have to get that from context.
There are differing views of the trustworthiness of BDAG, but a more useful and helpful lexicological resource for the texts that concern us doesn't really exist. I certainly think it's true that the usage of νεκρός in the GNT ranges over several senses of the English word "dead". It should be noted too that we don't discuss issues of theological interpretation in this forum.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
Jacob Rhoden
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Re: νεκροὶ in John 5:25

Post by Jacob Rhoden »

cwconrad wrote: There are differing views of the trustworthiness of BDAG, but a more useful and helpful lexicological resource for the texts that concern us doesn't really exist. I certainly think it's true that the usage of νεκρός in the GNT ranges over several senses of the English word "dead".
Thanks for your replies, its helpful to confirm what I thought.
cwconrad wrote:It should be noted too that we don't discuss issues of theological interpretation in this forum.
Yep, I understand. I like to add background to my questions—sometimes people misunderstand what I am asking, and I have discovered that adding background usually helps ensure people understand what I am trying to ask.
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