John 7:49

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Rhoover60
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Joined: November 29th, 2015, 1:05 pm

John 7:49

Post by Rhoover60 »

Why would the predicate adjective ἐπάρατοί be plural and the subject ὁ ὄχλος be singular?

ἀλλὰ ὁ ὄχλος οὗτος ὁ μὴ γινώσκων τὸν νόμον ἐπάρατοί εἰσιν.
Jonathan Robie
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Re: John 7:49

Post by Jonathan Robie »

In English we might say, "But this crowd, which knows nothing of the law - they are accursed!" And we wouldn't worry so much about the lack of agreement, the focus shifts from a crowd as a unit to the people in the crowd in the course of the sentence.

In Greek, collective nouns like λαός, ὄχλος usually take a plural verb - or here, a plural adjective form - as if the subject were a bunch of individuals. See Smyth §950:
950. With singular collective substantives (996) denoting persons and with like words implying a plural, the verb may stand in the plural.
Thus, ““τὸ στρατόπεδον ἐν αἰτίᾳ ἔχοντες τὸν Ἆγιν ἀνεχώρουν” the army returned holding Agis at fault” T. 5.60, ““τοιαῦτα ἀκούσα_σα ἡ πόλις Ἀ_γησίλα_ον εἵλοντο βασιλέα_” the city, after hearing such arguments, chose Agesilaus king” X. H. 3.3.4. So with βουλή senate, μέρος part, πλῆθος multitude, δῆμος people, ὄχλος throng.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Rhoover60
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Joined: November 29th, 2015, 1:05 pm

Re: John 7:49

Post by Rhoover60 »

My thanks to you, J. Robie. I remember similar guidelines regarding plural neuter subjects and singular verbs [or is it the other way around? I will have to check on that.] Regards.
Jonathan Robie
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Re: John 7:49

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Rhoover60 wrote:My thanks to you, J. Robie. I remember similar guidelines regarding plural neuter subjects and singular verbs [or is it the other way around? I will have to check on that.] Regards.
You got it right - when the subject is a neuter plural, the verb is usually singular. They do that just to trick us. There's a really good description of Concord starting on page 313 of Jannaris. I wish I had Jannaris in text form.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Rhoover60
Posts: 8
Joined: November 29th, 2015, 1:05 pm

Re: John 7:49

Post by Rhoover60 »

J. Robie, thanks. I read the passage from Jannaris and noticed this phrase, "Nevertheless, it is not rigidly adhered to even by A[ttic?] writers. etc." This points out what probably happened in my thinking. I falsely imagined that language had a mathematical precision to it!! Hopefully, I will learn from this. More Regards.
Barry Hofstetter
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Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: John 7:49

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

Rhoover60 wrote:J. Robie, thanks. I read the passage from Jannaris and noticed this phrase, "Nevertheless, it is not rigidly adhered to even by A[ttic?] writers. etc." This points out what probably happened in my thinking. I falsely imagined that language had a mathematical precision to it!! Hopefully, I will learn from this. More Regards.
No such thing as mathematical precision in any language. In the case of the neuter plural/singular verb, the verb most often goes into the plural when people are the referent of the noun, though even that is not an absolute usage.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
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