νικάω + ἐκ in Rev. 15,2

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Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Peter Streitenberger
Posts: 208
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:45 am

Re: νικάω + ἐκ in Rev. 15,2

Post by Peter Streitenberger » June 20th, 2017, 1:04 am

Dear all,

thank you for all your help so far - the discussion is of high value for me, as I feel not able to get along with that alone. Each contribution was combined with new insights for me.
Stirling, I would provide a translation of Perseus for the quote of Thyc., which fits very good in this debate:
yet it is the part of valiant men, when they receive injury, to pass from peace into war, and after success, from war to come again to composition, and neither to swell with the good success of war nor to suffer injury through pleasure taken in the ease of peace.
The original text:
ἀνδρῶν γὰρ σωφρόνων μέν ἐστιν, εἰ μὴ ἀδικοῖντο, ἡσυχάζειν, ἀγα-
θῶν δὲ ἀδικουμένους ἐκ μὲν εἰρήνης πολεμεῖν, εὖ δὲ παρασχὸν ἐκ πολέμου πάλιν ξυμβῆναι, καὶ μήτε τῇ κατὰ πόλεμον εὐτυχίᾳ ἐπαίρεσθαι μήτε τῷ ἡσύχῳ τῆς εἰρήνης ἡδόμενον ἀδικεῖσθαι.
This is the nearest parallel passage and, of course, I`ve overlooked that - how did the author find it without the TLG ? Amazing. At least a good explanation and matrix for the ἐκ in Rev 15,2. If time permits I search on this pattern in the TLG.
Jonathan wrote:
OK, now I know that you understand adjuncts ;-> Not everyone does, I'm sorry if it felt like I was talking down to you.
Everything is no problem - the good thing - even we Germans have adjuncts :-).
Does he give examples where νικάω ἐκ means sich befreien von / free oneself from?
That is what I miss as well, but that would not be part of a short commentary on the Greek text, as it is one book on the whole NT. As for me - I always need to have one clear parallel to back a statement up, so the above quote of Thyc. is something I can get along with. You and other contributors here agreed already that a substitution of something like "coming from a war as winners" could be plausible. I think that is the direction of the parallel in Thyc. - "Free yourself from" is prima vista a good idea, but needs to be backed up at least by one example - the "come from a war" proposal is one quote in front - maybe this could win the race at the end - at least for me.

Yours Peter
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Peter Streitenberger
Posts: 208
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:45 am

Re: νικάω + ἐκ in Rev. 15,2

Post by Peter Streitenberger » June 20th, 2017, 4:42 am

As an addition, as I could not edit the former text:
M. Psellus, In E. Nic. 549.6: "δυνατὸν δὲ αὐτοὺς νικῆσαι οὐκ ἐκ προφανοῦς πο-
λέμου". "it is possible now that they win not out of a forseen battle".
Same author (Oratoria min. 2.37: " ἀλλ’ ἐπὶ τῷ μάχεσθαι νικᾶν τε καὶ εἰρήνην ἐκ πολέμου ποιεῖν". "But to win due to being fought and even gain peace out of war".

Please feel free to correct my English-Greek, as I'm neither English nor Greek :-) P.
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