Joh 1,18 - force of the present tense of ὢν

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Chris Engelsma
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Re: Joh 1,18 - force of the present tense of ὢν

Post by Chris Engelsma » July 25th, 2011, 9:13 am

This thread has proven to me how inextricably theology is interwoven with grammar/syntax. I know this forum attempts to limit itself to discussions of grammar and syntax, but this is nearly impossible. The meaning and theology of the text is so bound up with the grammar that they can't be separated. I don't say this to disparage this forum or anything like that. I think this forum has a good objective. This isn't the place for theological discussions, and I understand that, but I do find it highly interesting just how tightly bound up these two are. yes?
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David Lim
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Re: Joh 1,18 - force of the present tense of ὢν

Post by David Lim » July 25th, 2011, 10:33 am

Chris Engelsma wrote:This thread has proven to me how inextricably theology is interwoven with grammar/syntax. I know this forum attempts to limit itself to discussions of grammar and syntax, but this is nearly impossible. The meaning and theology of the text is so bound up with the grammar that they can't be separated. I don't say this to disparage this forum or anything like that. I think this forum has a good objective. This isn't the place for theological discussions, and I understand that, but I do find it highly interesting just how tightly bound up these two are. yes?
I have a feeling that it is easier for us to understand some text when we are actually trying to understand it, in which case I think we would not even have need for theology in order to understand the scriptures, just as the original audience did not have theology to begin with. So I like the fact that B-Greek chooses to stay as close as possible to discussion about what the texts are trying to convey rather than discussion about how a certain text can fit into some theological framework. :)

As for this tiny participle in John 1:18, when I read it in Greek I never once had the faintest idea that the author was trying to convey anything more than the fact that the "μονογενης υιος" that he was referring to is "εις τον κολπον του πατρος", and since I never had any impression of the author specifying time, I would of course believe that this is indeed how he meant it. Of course, if many people who can read Greek fluently tell me that they had a different impression, I would be forced to see if I had missed some subtle nuance there.
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Chris Engelsma
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Re: Joh 1,18 - force of the present tense of ὢν

Post by Chris Engelsma » July 25th, 2011, 10:40 am

David Lim wrote: I have a feeling that it is easier for us to understand some text when we are actually trying to understand it, in which case I think we would not even have need for theology in order to understand the scriptures, just as the original audience did not have theology to begin with. So I like the fact that B-Greek chooses to stay as close as possible to discussion about what the texts are trying to convey rather than discussion about how a certain text can fit into some theological framework. :)
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I agree that B-Greek should stick with grammatical discussions but even in your comments above, you reference our discussions "about what the texts are trying to convey." This is theology...yes? The texts are conveying meaning and that meaning is the stuff of theology.
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