Mark 1:4 "καὶ ἦν ὁ Ἰωάννης ἐνδεδυμένος τρίχας καμήλου (Mar 1:6) ..."
How are we suppose to take the perfect participle "ἐνδεδυμένος"? Translation like NAS or NIV use simple past tense. I think the perfect tense gives the meaning like "John was alreading wearing camel cloth..." or "John have been wearing camel cloth and..." The emphasis might not on the clothing (but that is context and interpretation which I understand that we should not get into).
But the idea is in this "beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ" and in the introduction of the early days when Jesus just started his ministry, John was already ministering like Elijah. He was already quite famous as "people from all Judean country and all the people from Jerusalem" came to him. And this famous, established "preacher" introduced Jesus as the one who "the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie."
Not getting into the context and interpretation, could we discuss the nuance of the perfect tense which seems to be missing in translation?
Thanks,
Dave
Mark 1:4 Nuance of Perfect Participle ἐνδεδυμένος
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Mark 1:4 Nuance of Perfect Participle ἐνδεδυμένος
Last edited by Stephen Carlson on August 7th, 2011, 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added Greek text to title
Reason: Added Greek text to title
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Re: Mark 1:4 Nuance of Perfect Participle
I think this is a periphrastic (ἦν ... ἐνδεδυμένος):
Mark 1:4 "καὶ ἦν ὁ Ἰωάννης ἐνδεδυμένος τρίχας καμήλου (Mar 1:6) ..."
Here's a paper by Rod Decker on periphrastics:
http://ntresources.com/documents/Periphratics.pdf
And a longer thesis by Carl Johnson:
http://dspace.uta.edu/bitstream/handle/ ... _10175.pdf
I haven't read either.
Mark 1:4 "καὶ ἦν ὁ Ἰωάννης ἐνδεδυμένος τρίχας καμήλου (Mar 1:6) ..."
Here's a paper by Rod Decker on periphrastics:
http://ntresources.com/documents/Periphratics.pdf
And a longer thesis by Carl Johnson:
http://dspace.uta.edu/bitstream/handle/ ... _10175.pdf
I haven't read either.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: Mark 1:4 Nuance of Perfect Participle
Hi Jonathan,
I did recognize it as periphrastic from the ἦν; but the question is why perfect participle is used (as periphrastic can and commonly go with present participle). I think the choice of perfect tense carries some force but is lost in translations.
I did recognize it as periphrastic from the ἦν; but the question is why perfect participle is used (as periphrastic can and commonly go with present participle). I think the choice of perfect tense carries some force but is lost in translations.
Re: Mark 1:4 Nuance of Perfect Participle
This is periphrastic because it is the only way that Greek in later centuries was able to express the pluperfect middle-passive. The force of the pluperfect middle-passive is practically equivalent to a stative imperfect: ἦν ἐνδεδμένος means "he had put on (himself) ..." = "he was wearing ... "
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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Re: Mark 1:4 Nuance of Perfect Participle
Ah I see. Thank you!