Both of the epistles are said to be authored by Paul. However, some might say that someone wrote for Paul (perhaps Luke) while Paul spoke.
In Romans 6:8, we see the verb ἀπεθάνομεν σὺν, but in 2 Timothy 2:11, we see the verb συναπεθάνομεν. Both possess the same meaning, but I was wondering why Paul would have used different forms if he personally authored both? Does anyone else find that peculiar?
I mention these two scriptures because they are recalling the same saying.
Romans 6:8
Now, if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.
2 Timothy 2:11
It is a believable saying: if we died with [him], we shall also live with [him].
Romans 6:8 and 2 Timothy 2:11
Forum rules
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
-
- Posts: 97
- Joined: May 30th, 2011, 11:25 pm
- Location: Texas
-
- Posts: 4226
- Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
- Location: Durham, NC
- Contact:
Re: Romans 6:8 and 2 Timothy 2:11
Peculiar compared to what? I've just spent a bunch of time editing something I wrote in which I said "can not" most of the time, and said "cannot" a few times. So perhaps Paul is not always consistent either. Or perhaps he had a different amanuensis for one of the letters. Or the manuscripts were transmitted via different scribes.
How much of this kind of variation in word choice do we see in the writings of one author? When do variations in word choice indicate two different authors? Or different social registers?
Are these two quotes written by the same person?
How much of this kind of variation in word choice do we see in the writings of one author? When do variations in word choice indicate two different authors? Or different social registers?
Are these two quotes written by the same person?
Is there a reason why the majuscular upsilon (Υ) does not take a psilon perispomene, while the miniscular upsilon does?
What methodology do you think we should use to determine such things? How do you prove whether it works reliably?lol...duh!
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
-
- Posts: 17
- Joined: August 3rd, 2011, 12:37 pm
Re: Romans 6:8 and 2 Timothy 2:11
In 2 Tim, συναποθνῄσκω is one word, a result of combining συν and αποθνῄσκω, but it has become a single word by itself. It is something like when we say co-died. "If we co-died, we will also co-live." (Note the "with Him" is many English translations is implied (clearly) but is not in the Greek text).
But in Romans, the "with Christ" is explicit (in Greek), so συν is used as a preposition with the dative Χριστῷ following. "If we died together with Christ, we believe...."
So I believe it is not the case of putting the συν before of after αποθνῄσκω. It just so happened that "with Christ" is implicit in one sentence but explicit in another one. By itself I don't think it is a good evidence to argue for or against different authorship.
edited/added: I do think that in the Romans case, the author could also say συναπεθάνομεν Χριστῷ, but in 2 Timothy, the author could not just say ἀπεθάνομεν σὺν because the object of σὺν would be missing.
But in Romans, the "with Christ" is explicit (in Greek), so συν is used as a preposition with the dative Χριστῷ following. "If we died together with Christ, we believe...."
So I believe it is not the case of putting the συν before of after αποθνῄσκω. It just so happened that "with Christ" is implicit in one sentence but explicit in another one. By itself I don't think it is a good evidence to argue for or against different authorship.
edited/added: I do think that in the Romans case, the author could also say συναπεθάνομεν Χριστῷ, but in 2 Timothy, the author could not just say ἀπεθάνομεν σὺν because the object of σὺν would be missing.
-
- Posts: 97
- Joined: May 30th, 2011, 11:25 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Romans 6:8 and 2 Timothy 2:11
Good points. Thank you.