Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

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This forum is for discussing how to do Greek composition and practicing writing in Greek.

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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 29th, 2016, 12:07 pm

I think this is a good example of using writing for active language acquisition, vocabulary in this case, and I think exploring various active language approaches to learning is good. Carl caught an error in one of my posts, I was happy to be corrected on that. I'll probably continue to keep my sentences brief, and to consider sentences in authentic texts as I write. It's what I do ;->
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Thomas Dolhanty
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Re: Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

Post by Thomas Dolhanty » January 29th, 2016, 12:39 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:
The words wrote:μάστιξ "affliction (=illness)" & "beating with a whip"), ἀλέκτωρ (ἐφώνησεν) , περικαλύπτω ("blindfold περικαλύπτειν τὸ πρόσωπον τινός", "coat" something), πλουτίζειν (opp. πτωχίζειν),
πρὶν τὴν φωνὴν τοῦ ἀλέκτορος ἐγείρων ὁ ἰατρὸς ἐπεσκέψατο τοὺς κακὼς ἔχοντας. καὶ εἶδον πλοῦτον τινα τυφλὸν περικαλύμμενον αὐτοῦ τὸ πρόσωπον. ἐκεῖνος δὲ ἀποκαλύψας τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ ἰᾶτο αὐτον, αὐτὸς δὲ ἐπλούτισαν αὐτόν σφόδρα.
You're missing μάστιξ, right?
Jonathan Robie wrote:I think this is a good example of using writing for active language acquisition, vocabulary in this case, and I think exploring various active language approaches to learning is good. Carl caught an error in one of my posts, I was happy to be corrected on that. I'll probably continue to keep my sentences brief, and to consider sentences in authentic texts as I write. It's what I do ;->
Amen. Great opportunity, and brief is good. My first effort rambled on a bit. I regard any correction as a benefit when you are trying hard to get it right. I think good teachers, in this kind of exercise try to pick up the one or two most salient/pertinent boo boos and ignore the others. In some fashion or other, I think we are all constantly scanning authentic texts to try to fit our expression to their patterns.
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Thomas Dolhanty
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Re: Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

Post by Thomas Dolhanty » January 29th, 2016, 3:21 pm

I think you can use μάστιξ in the sense of giving/receiving afflictions.

περικαλύψασα τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτῆς ταῖς χερσὶν ἡ γυνὴ ἔκλαυσεν διὰ πάσας τὰς μάστιγὰς ἃς οἱ δὺο ἀλέκτορες ἔλαβον ἀπ᾽ ἀλλήλων. οὕτως οἱ ἄνθρωποι οἱ σκληροὶ ἐζήτουν πλουτισθῆναι.
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cwconrad
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Re: Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

Post by cwconrad » January 29th, 2016, 4:31 pm

Thomas Dolhanty wrote:I think you can use μάστιξ in the sense of giving/receiving afflictions.

περικαλύψασα τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτῆς ταῖς χερσὶν ἡ γυνὴ ἔκλαυσεν διὰ πάσας τὰς μάστιγὰς ἃς οἱ δὺο ἀλέκτορες ἔλαβον ἀπ᾽ ἀλλήλων. οὕτως οἱ ἄνθρωποι οἱ σκληροὶ ἐζήτουν πλουτισθῆναι.
I like it, I like it! But I couldn't resist this, with apologies to Aeschylus and T.S. Eliot ...
ὁ μὲν ἀλέκτωρ μάστιγι πληχθείς, "ὤμοι," ἔφη, "πέπληγμαι καιρίαν ἔσω πλήγην!" ἔπειτα δὲ δεύτερον μαστιχθεὶς ἐβόησεν· "ὤμοι μαλ’ αὖθις, δευτέραν πεπληγμένος!"
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οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Thomas Dolhanty
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Re: Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

Post by Thomas Dolhanty » January 29th, 2016, 11:17 pm

cwconrad wrote:
Thomas Dolhanty wrote:I think you can use μάστιξ in the sense of giving/receiving afflictions.

περικαλύψασα τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτῆς ταῖς χερσὶν ἡ γυνὴ ἔκλαυσεν διὰ πάσας τὰς μάστιγὰς ἃς οἱ δὺο ἀλέκτορες ἔλαβον ἀπ᾽ ἀλλήλων. οὕτως οἱ ἄνθρωποι οἱ σκληροὶ ἐζήτουν πλουτισθῆναι.
I like it, I like it! But I couldn't resist this, with apologies to Aeschylus and T.S. Eliot ...
ὁ μὲν ἀλέκτωρ μάστιγι πληχθείς, "ὤμοι," ἔφη, "πέπληγμαι καιρίαν ἔσω πλήγην!" ἔπειτα δὲ δεύτερον μαστιχθεὶς ἐβόησεν· "ὤμοι μαλ’ αὖθις, δευτέραν πεπληγμένος!"
:D
ἡ μὲν μία γυνὴ σπλαγχνισθείςα ἔκλαυσεν ἕνεκα τῶν ἀλεκτόρων ἡ δὲ ἄλλη γυνὴ (τοῦ Ἀγαμέμνων) διὰ αὐτῆς θυμὸν ὀργῆς ἐποίησεν τὸ σοβαρὸν καταπαῦσαι εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 29th, 2016, 11:36 pm

Thomas Dolhanty wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:πρὶν τὴν φωνὴν τοῦ ἀλέκτορος ἐγείρων ὁ ἰατρὸς ἐπεσκέψατο τοὺς κακὼς ἔχοντας. καὶ εἶδον πλοῦτον τινα τυφλὸν περικαλύμμενον αὐτοῦ τὸ πρόσωπον. ἐκεῖνος δὲ ἀποκαλύψας τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ ἰᾶτο αὐτον, αὐτὸς δὲ ἐπλούτισαν αὐτόν σφόδρα.
You're missing μάστιξ, right?
Yes. :oops: The whole story-line about a doctor and healing was based on the need to work the word μάστιξ into it. It was meant to be the punch-line, so to speak, but I had forgotten it by the end.

Here is another version incorporating Thomas' point about the missing word and other points received privately in a PM from another party.

καθ' ἡμέραν, πρὶν ἀλέκτορα φωνῆσαι ἐγέρθεις ὁ ἰατρὸς ἐπεσκέψατο τοὺς κακὼς ἔχοντας. καὶ ιδοὺ, ἐν τῇ ἀγορᾷ περιπατῶν εἶδον αὐτὸς πλοῦτον τινα τυφλὸν περίλυπον καὶ ἐν σιρικῷ περικαλύμμενον αὐτοῦ τὸ πρόσωπον. ὁ ἰατρὸς δὲ ἀποκαλύψας τὰ ὄμματα τοῦ δυστυχοὺς ἰᾶτο αὐτόν. αὐτὸς δὲ ἐπλούτισεν σφόδρα τὸν θεραπεύσας τὰς μαστιγὰς αὐτοῦ.
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Re: Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 30th, 2016, 12:11 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:τὸν θεραπεύσας τὰς μαστιγς αὐτοῦ
Should be "τὰς μάστιγας".

With regard to Wes' suggestion that each group of words go in a different thread ... I don't think there is any special significance to these groups of words. What might happen in other circumstances is that individuals might make a portfolio of their own work, to both see and display their progress. In this case the disordered throng allows people to post or not post, join in and drop out, write well or poorly, carefully or more intuitively, without any attention being drawn to anyone in particular, or anything very much at all. More like the audience singing along to tunes they barely know, than to Karaoke where individuals take turns in the spotlight on the stage (singing along to songs that imagined they could when they heard them on the radio).

As for grading, if there was ever need for it, I would say that if someone walked away from each composition exercise having learned a couple of things that they didn't know before, then that's great. It is something that can be attempted at any level, right from word-for-word translation of English up to no thinking or planning in English or using grammar free writing, and the participants can get some benefit.
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Re: Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 30th, 2016, 6:38 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:I'll probably continue to keep my sentences brief, and to consider sentences in authentic texts as I write. It's what I do ;->
I think I understand your ideal (goal and means to attain it), and if you'd like to see how far you are along the way towards it, then there is another type of exercise that you could try. I will set one up for you in another thread. Your own critic of your efforts or the feedback of others will focus on your shortcomings in addition to your failings. You can make that private or public as you see fit.

Here is the different type of composition exercise that I've created. Now you can try it and be an :ugeek:
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Re: Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 1st, 2016, 10:29 am

Four more words; διάφορος, κατάγνυμι, κείρω, πρόσκαιρος.
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Thomas Dolhanty
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Re: Greek Composition 4x4 Challenge

Post by Thomas Dolhanty » February 2nd, 2016, 2:36 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:Four more words; διάφορος, κατάγνυμι, κείρω, πρόσκαιρος.
Exile

ἐκεῖνος ὁ κατάξας λαὸς κατὰ στοῖχον ἤγετο κατὰ ἀνατολὰς περιπατοῦντες καὶ κλαίοντες. αἱ γυναῖκες αἱ κεκαρμέναι καὶ δυσπινής ἐπείραζον σῶσαι τὰ τέκνα αὐτῶν οἱ δὲ ἄνδρες αὐτῶν κλαίοντες καὶ πενθοῦντες ἀδιαλείπτως περιεπάτουν. ἀπὸ τοῦ νῦν πάντα ἔσονται διάφορα καὶ ἐκεῖνοι ἔγνωσαν ὅτι αὐτῶν ἡ αἰχμαλωσία οὐκ ἔσται πρόσκαιρος. τινὲς δὲ ἐξ αὐτῶν κλαίοντες εἶπαν πρὸς ἀλλήλους «ἐὰν ἐπιλάθωμαί σου Ιερουσαλημ ἐπιλησθείη ἡ δεξιά μου»

Notes:
  • I think κατάγνυμι (κατάξας) can be used in this context.
  • I couldn't find a good word to express 'stumbling along' as would be seen in a stunned people being led into exile.
  • The adjective for unkempt or disheveled (δυσπινής) seems to have just one form.
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