Page 3 of 3

Re: 5x1 definition challenge

Posted: February 7th, 2016, 9:21 am
by Wes Wood
There is so much to respond to, and I am on my phone! I will try to be thorough but concise. I didn't mean to suggest that everyone do like I am doing or have done, I was just letting you know how I have formed my definitions heretofore. I never wanted to foist my expectations on anyone else. There have been several times when I would've gone outside of my self imposed bounds had I not checked my composition against the frequency list. I have added enough words from (mainly) Plato to my vocabulary now that I can no longer be sure that the words I am most familiar with are the ones that occur ten times or more in the New Testament. It is a new and happy problem.

I can say with confidence that I am fine with or without the glosses; I haven't had difficulty reading what either of you have written, though I don't always read it (as in Thomas's last effort) the same way as it was intended. The upside to the glosses is that they may make the endeavor more inviting. I am imagining a situation where someone might want to participate but looks at what the participants have written and, being unable to translate it quickly, thinks the endeavor is too advanced to join. I am trying to be sensitive to this concern.

Glosses are helpful, for sure, but the tradeoff is time. I know from the Xenophon thread, and the ones like it, how time consuming it is to make those aids. I intend to stay my course, but fully support whatever decisions you make. Ultimately, this exercise is for the benefit of the participants, not the onlookers.

Re: 5x1 definition challenge

Posted: February 7th, 2016, 9:54 am
by cwconrad
Wes Wood wrote:There is so much to respond to, and I am on my phone! I will try to be thorough but concise. I didn't mean to suggest that everyone do like I am doing or have done, I was just letting you know how I have formed my definitions heretofore. I never wanted to foist my expectations on anyone else. There have been several times when I would've gone outside of my self imposed bounds had I not checked my composition against the frequency list. I have added enough words from (mainly) Plato to my vocabulary now that I can no longer be sure that the words I am most familiar with are the ones that occur ten times or more in the New Testament. It is a new and happy problem.

I can say with confidence that I am fine with or without the glosses; I haven't had difficulty reading what either of you have written, though I don't always read it (as in Thomas's last effort) the same way as it was intended. The upside to the glosses is that they may make the endeavor more inviting. I am imagining a situation where someone might want to participate but looks at what the participants have written and, being unable to translate it quickly, thinks the endeavor is too advanced to join. I am trying to be sensitive to this concern.

Glosses are helpful, for sure, but the tradeoff is time. I know from the Xenophon thread, and the ones like it, how time consuming it is to make those aids. I intend to stay my course, but fully support whatever decisions you make. Ultimately, this exercise is for the benefit of the participants, not the onlookers.
I can only add a long-retired pedagogue's "Amen!" to this. This forum is about as far from an ideal venue for tutorial work of this nature as one can conceive; in decades past, I used to do this regularly in my office with one or two students, where questions and answers can be exchanged within moments and the time/learning ratio is ideal and ordinarily the exercise is immensely beneficial to the student; here minutes or hours intervene between each step in what ought to be a congenial face-to-face tutorial session in real time.

Re: 5x1 definition challenge

Posted: February 8th, 2016, 6:13 am
by Stephen Hughes
Wes Wood wrote:I intend to stay my course, but fully support whatever decisions you make.
Well, I'm still developing my ideas.
Stephen Hughes wrote:
English definitions of words given, but confined to footnotes wrote:ὑπερβάλλων - ὁ ὑπερβαίνων¹ ὃ θεωρεῖται² κανωνικόν³.

Ὑποσημειώσεις (Footnotes)
¹ὑπερβαίνειν - to go over, to exceed, ²θεωρεῖσθαι - to be considered, ³κανωνικός - regular)
Personally, I prefer the last one where the English is confined to the footnotes.
Attempting to exclude English from the footnotes, and trying to lead all roads back to the ten times mark, opens a weeks worth of cans of worms in a single post. If footnotes were to be limited to using Greek, then perhaps they themselves would have to be explained in another layer of footnotes to the footnotes. The result is something like lasagne. Compare this to a single word gloss:
  • ὄνος - τετράποδον ὑποζύγιον ὁμοιάζον ἵππῳ, ἔχον μεγάλην κεφαλὴν καὶ μεγάλα ὠτία.

    Ὑποσημειώσεις.
    τετράποδος - ἔχων τέσσαρας πόδας, ὑποζύγιον ζῷον - ζῷον ἐφ' ὃ ἐπικεῖται (ἐπιτιθέασιν) ζυγὸν (ἐπὶ τὸν τράχηλον αὐτοῦ), ζυγός - ξυλίνη κατασκευὴ προσηρμοσμένη τῷ τραχήλῳ ζῴων εἰς τὸ ζεῦξαι αὐτὰ τῷ ἀρότρῳ, προσαρμόζειν - συνδέειν τι τινί, τράχηλος - τὸ τμῆμα τοῦ σώματος ἑνοῦν τὴν κεφαλὴν τῷ θώρακι (κορμῷ), ὠτίον - τὸ ἔξω πτερύγιον τοῦ αἰσθητηρίου (ὀργάνου) τῆς ἀκοῆς, τὰ αἰσθητήρια - τὰ ὄργανα τῆς αἰσθήσεως.

    Ὑποσημειώσεις.
    ὑποζύγιον ζῷον - "beast of burden, beast for the yoke", ζυγός - "yoke", προσαρμόζειν - "fit", τράχηλος - "neck", ὠτίον - "ear", τὰ αἰσθητήρια - "sense organs".
It is all so much more complex than:
  • ὄνος - ass
Cool for a lark to pass the time, anyway... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: 5x1 definition challenge

Posted: February 8th, 2016, 8:25 pm
by Mark Lightman
Stephen Hughes wrote:Please compose definitions that you find adequate to explain, define the meanings of the words occurring five (5) times in the New Testament.
πένθος, ους, τό (5),
Emiliano Caruso wrote:πένθος, ους, τό = λύπη, κραυγή, κώκυμα, οἰμωγή. ≠ χαρά, γέλως.
Liddel, Scott and Konstantinidis wrote:πένθος, εος, τό, θλῖψις, λύπη...δυστύχημα, ἀτύχημα, κακὴ τύχη τινός, δυστυχία, ἀθλιότης...(τύπος παράλληλος τῇ λέξει πάθος, ὡς τὸ βένθος τῇ λέξει βάθος.)
Homer, Iliad 1:254 wrote:μέγα πένθος Ἀχαιΐδα γαῖαν ἱκάνει.
Gaza's Paraphrase, Iliad 1:254 wrote:μεγάλη λύπη τὴν Ἑλληνίδα γῆν καταλαμβάνει.
εἰ κακόν τι γίγνεται, πένθος ὑπάρχει. εἰ δὲ πένθος ἔχω, κλαίω καὶ οὐ μειδῶ. ἐκ μὲν Διαβόλου πένθος γίγνεται. ὁ δὲ Θεὸς πᾶν πένθος παύσει.
Rev 18:7b wrote:ὅτι ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ αὐτῆς λέγει ὅτι Κάθημαι βασίλισσα, καὶ χήρα οὐκ εἰμί, καὶ πένθος οὐ μὴ ἴδω:
Rev 21:1b wrote:καὶ ὁ θάνατος οὐκ ἔσται ἔτι, οὔτε πένθος οὔτε κραυγὴ οὔτε πόνος οὐκ ἔσται ἔτι:
ἐν τούτῳ τῷ κόσμῳ, ὁ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ δοῦλος πένθος ὄψεται. :cry: ἀλλ' ἐν τῷ ἐρχομένῳ, πένθος οὐκ ἔσται. :D

Re: 5x1 definition challenge

Posted: February 9th, 2016, 3:10 am
by RandallButh
for Stephen's post above: 'like' :D

for Mark's post above: 'like' :D

Re: 5x1 definition challenge

Posted: June 1st, 2018, 1:12 am
by Jacob Rhoden
I love the idea of this thread, however, ultimately I agree:
Stephen Hughes wrote:
February 8th, 2016, 6:13 am
It is all so much more complex than:
  • ὄνος - ass
Continuing with this theme, however, I wonder if it would not be much more beneficial for a project that produces beginner level example sentences to help solidify the understanding. i.e.

{Greek}{English gloss}
{Example sentences}

I found that even as a beginner, If a quick search in Accordance for example sentences using that word resulted in discovery of comprehensible sentences, that word would stick without needing flash cards at all. The problem is, that task is time consuming and often fruitless. I wonder if a collection of sample sentences measured against beginner vocabulary would be quite valuable.

Re: 5x1 definition challenge

Posted: June 1st, 2018, 5:35 am
by Barry Hofstetter
Jacob Rhoden wrote:
June 1st, 2018, 1:12 am

Continuing with this theme, however, I wonder if it would not be much more beneficial for a project that produces beginner level example sentences to help solidify the understanding. i.e.

{Greek}{English gloss}
{Example sentences}

I found that even as a beginner, If a quick search in Accordance for example sentences using that word resulted in discovery of comprehensible sentences, that word would stick without needing flash cards at all. The problem is, that task is time consuming and often fruitless. I wonder if a collection of sample sentences measured against beginner vocabulary would be quite valuable.
I wonder if that's what beginning textbooks do? :lol:

Re: 5x1 definition challenge

Posted: June 2nd, 2018, 11:27 pm
by Jacob Rhoden
My memory of first year Greek was a weekly list of words, and associated practice exercises that used words that I was not yet familiar with. So the practice sentences were not really “Greek reading” exercises, but more “dictionary lookup” exercises.

Is there a textbook that provides example sentences for each vocabulary word that is fully comprehensible for the student in the Greek?

Re: 5x1 definition challenge

Posted: June 3rd, 2018, 6:53 am
by daveburt
Jacob Rhoden wrote:
June 2nd, 2018, 11:27 pm
Is there a textbook that provides example sentences for each vocabulary word that is fully comprehensible for the student in the Greek?
Randall Buth has "400 friends", "Λέξεις 400" -- I have a Greek one from the John audio package, but I think they might be included with the textbooks as well, possibly?

The format is close to what you describe, covering down to about 35 occurrences:
Randall Buth, 'Λέξεις 400', 2009 wrote:2 ἀγάπη, ἡ (116) love γν ἀγάπης
ὁ θεὸς ἀγάπη ἐστίν
1Jn 4:16 God is love
ἡ ἀγάπη τῷ πλησίον κακὸν ούκ ἐργάζεται
Rm 13:10 love does not do evil to the neighbor

Re: 5x1 definition challenge

Posted: June 6th, 2018, 12:49 am
by daveburt
Back to the original topic, though:

ὀλιγόπιστος (οὐσιαστικό): ὀ μικρήν πίστιν ἔχειν

ἀρετή (οὐσιαστικό): τι ἄνθρωπος ἔχων, ὤστε λέγομεν περί αὐτού λέγων Αὐτος μεγας και δίκαιος ἐστίν

(Please pardon and/or correct my many errors; I am very new at this.)