Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Louis L Sorenson
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Re: Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Post by Louis L Sorenson » August 26th, 2015, 2:09 am

When reading the chapter on lexicography, Campbell says the following on page 88:
Subsequent to John Lee's study of New Testament lexicography, Frederick Danker produced The concise Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.In response to critiques of previous methodology, Danker's concise lexicon redressed some of the problems that afflict BDAG. The most significant advance in this regard is the inclusion of extended definitions for many lexical entries -- alongside glosses. This volume is useful for students, being less encumbered by detail that they rarely need -- and being much less expensive -- but it cannot replace BDAG for scholars and many pastors, who will require a more fulsome treatment of lexemes
Because of that statement, I just purchased Danker's Concise Lexicon. I bought a kindle version from Amazon. Logos does not offer a version. And Logos does not support Kindle books, so I cannot use my Kindle DCL in my Logos app -- what a pity... I've got a number of books in Kindle format I would like to use in my Logos software. I'm also thinking that I should recommend to my beginning and intermediate students that this is the lexicon for them to purchase. "Throw out Barclay Newman's UBS lexicon, and get a lexicon that will teach you."

But the point I'm trying to make is that Emiliano Caruso has just produced one of the first Koine-Koine lexicons, titled Vocabolario Monolingue di Greco Antico / Monolingual Dictionary of Ancient Greek. ISBN 978-88-909711-0-5. http://www.monogreek.com. Italy, 2014. This is a very basic lexicon, and has much to be improved upon. I think the best Caruso would do to improve is to try to use Danker's Concise lexicon as a model, and then create definitions, not glosses.

So BDAG is the best -- but in some cases DCL is better? What do you all think about this?
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Paul-Nitz
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Re: Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Post by Paul-Nitz » August 26th, 2015, 8:03 am

Louis, Could you post an example from DCL?
Yes, I think a sub-forum for this book would be good. Or, perhaps the sub-forum should be more generally advances in the study of Greek. Could it be created with pre-set threads according to the major topics covered in the book?
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Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi

cwconrad
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Re: Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Post by cwconrad » August 26th, 2015, 9:56 am

Louis L Sorenson wrote:I've been reading through this book lately. Perhaps we should have a subforum on this book so we can create nested threads. My comments are as follows:

On the middle voice. I really wish that Campbell had listed the following books:
(1) Susan Kemmer: The Middle Voice Amsterdam; Philadelphia: John Benjamins Pub. Co., 1993. Series: Typological studies in language, v. 23.

(2) Middle Voice in Modern Greek: meaning and function of an inflectional category. Linda Joyce Manney, Amsterdam; Philadelphia: John Benjamins Pub., ©2000. Series: Studies in language companion series, v. 48.
Like Paul, I agree that a subforum on this book would be useful. I've thought repeatedly that it's a serious mistake to undertake a survey as important as this book potentially should be without trying to keep abreast of what's posted on this forum; the so-called "cutting-edge" is not restricted to new publications and SBL forums.

The importance of Suzanne Kemmer's book cannot be overestimated, in my opinion. Its cross-linguistic approach opened up for me a vision every bit as exhilarating as Chapman's Homer on Keats. A whole bunch of questions I had been pondering about Greek and Latin "deponents", Romance-language reflexives as well as French verbs conjugated with être and with avoir and even the simplistic and misleading understanding of voice in English that I'd worked with for decades were suddenly illuminated and new questions suggested for further research.

Louis, I'm glad you've cited the Manney book on Middle Voice in Modern Greek -- I'm grieved not to have known of it previously. A quick read of the blurb and then of the abstract has made it clear that this is indeed a book of major importance; these John Benjamins books are very expensive, but I've managed to order a so-called "unopened used" copy and look forward to working through it. I have read some other studies of "deponent" verbs in Modern Greek that haven't been very impressive; this looks like "the real McCoy."
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οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 27th, 2015, 5:46 am

I have created a subforum (and moved these posts there). I also bought the book ...
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 27th, 2015, 9:12 am

How do we proceed?

Does someone want to volunteer to walk us through this book? Or should we take one chapter at a time, in order? Or ...
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Paul-Nitz
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Re: Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Post by Paul-Nitz » August 28th, 2015, 7:03 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:How do we proceed?
Just my two cents...

If this one topic thread is it, I think there will inevitably be confusing cross-postings.
How about:
a) an actual subforum be created for this book (like the "Books" subforum).
b) a moderator create a topic for each chapter.
c) this topic thread be an eleventh topic, perhaps labeled "Misc."
d) a 12th topic be labeled "Reviews" for discussing published reviews of the book.

If we want to really engage in a useful discussion, each of the chapters could be assigned an adhoc moderator. For example, let's say Eeli is asked to be adhoc moderator for the topic that is created on "Verbal Aspect and Aktionsart", or Carl is asked to moderate the topic created on "Voice and Deponency." The moderators could initiate discussion with a head post. As discussion took place, the moderator might guide the discussion a bit, much like what a chairman does in a meeting ("Let's postpone that, let's finish up this...").

If you like this moderator idea, I think you should choose a member who is interested in the topic, but has shown to be more impartial. I think Eeli would fit the bill for Aspect, but maybe Carl should have the freedom of getting into the fray on Voice and not be a moderator. Likewise, Shirley (not Nitz) would be great for the chapter on "Methods of Teaching Greek."

I'd anticipate some very good discussion coming from this. I have the book, but it's as yet unopened.
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Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 28th, 2015, 7:15 am

Paul-Nitz wrote:If this one topic thread is it, I think there will inevitably be confusing cross-postings.
How about:
a) an actual subforum be created for this book (like the "Books" subforum).
b) a moderator create a topic for each chapter.
c) this topic thread be an eleventh topic, perhaps labeled "Misc."
d) a 12th topic be labeled "Reviews" for discussing published reviews of the book.
This thread is already in a dedicated subforum. I like the rest of your ideas.
Paul-Nitz wrote:If we want to really engage in a useful discussion, each of the chapters could be assigned an adhoc moderator. For example, let's say Eeli is asked to be adhoc moderator for the topic that is created on "Verbal Aspect and Aktionsart", or Carl is asked to moderate the topic created on "Voice and Deponency." The moderators could initiate discussion with a head post. As discussion took place, the moderator might guide the discussion a bit, much like what a chairman does in a meeting ("Let's postpone that, let's finish up this...").
Excellent idea. And I like the choice of Eeli for "Verbal Aspect and Aktionsart" and Carl for "Voice and Deponency".
Paul-Nitz wrote:If you like this moderator idea, I think you should choose a member who is interested in the topic, but has shown to be more impartial. I think Eeli would fit the bill for Aspect, but maybe Carl should have the freedom of getting into the fray on Voice and not be a moderator. Likewise, Shirley (not Nitz) would be great for the chapter on "Methods of Teaching Greek."

I'd anticipate some very good discussion coming from this. I have the book, but it's as yet unopened.
You changed your mind on Carl for voice and deponency ;->

I'll look at the table of contents and give it a shot. I think I would choose Louis for "Methods of Teaching Greek", he is informed but very eclectic and not particularly religious about approach.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Eeli Kaikkonen
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Re: Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen » August 28th, 2015, 11:33 am

Thanks for the trust. I don't have the book, it would take about two weeks to get it (from UK). I and my wife have tough time with our 1.5 month old baby and I'm working half time but will soon be either working/studying full time or be unemployed. So it's difficult to know right now if I can promise 100% dedication.
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Stephen Carlson
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Re: Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Post by Stephen Carlson » September 9th, 2015, 2:51 am

Stanley Porter has begun a series of blog posts reviewing Campbell's book, starting here: http://domainthirtythree.com/2015/09/08 ... -part-one/
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Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
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Eeli Kaikkonen
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Re: Campbell: Advances in the Study of Greek

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen » February 23rd, 2016, 6:51 am

Stephen Carlson wrote:Stanley Porter has begun a series of blog posts reviewing Campbell's book, starting here: http://domainthirtythree.com/2015/09/08 ... -part-one/
Part three is interesting. Porter sounds somewhat bitter. He doesn't appreciate Campbell's representation of SFL, critiques Levinsohn's and Runge's lack of framework and completeness and is sceptical about all pronunciation systems and living language/immersion approach. I would love to see responses by Runge and Buth.
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