Exo 5:14,19 - λεγοντες

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Exo 5:14,19 - λεγοντες

Postby David Lim » April 14th, 2012, 11:24 am

[Exo 5] [13] οι δε εργοδιωκται κατεσπευδον αυτους λεγοντες συντελειτε τα εργα τα καθηκοντα καθ ημεραν καθαπερ και οτε το αχυρον εδιδοτο υμιν [14] και εμαστιγωθησαν οι γραμματεις του γενους των υιων ισραηλ οι κατασταθεντες επ αυτους υπο των επιστατων του φαραω λεγοντες δια τι ου συνετελεσατε τας συνταξεις υμων της πλινθειας καθαπερ εχθες και τριτην ημεραν και το της σημερον [15] εισελθοντες δε οι γραμματεις των υιων ισραηλ κατεβοησαν προς φαραω λεγοντες ινα τι ουτως ποιεις τοις σοις οικεταις [16] αχυρον ου διδοται τοις οικεταις σου και την πλινθον ημιν λεγουσιν ποιειν και ιδου οι παιδες σου μεμαστιγωνται αδικησεις ουν τον λαον σου [17] και ειπεν αυτοις σχολαζετε σχολασται εστε δια τουτο λεγετε πορευθωμεν θυσωμεν τω θεω ημων [18] νυν ουν πορευθεντες εργαζεσθε το γαρ αχυρον ου δοθησεται υμιν και την συνταξιν της πλινθειας αποδωσετε [19] εωρων δε οι γραμματεις των υιων ισραηλ εαυτους εν κακοις λεγοντες ουκ απολειψετε της πλινθειας το καθηκον τη ημερα

"λεγοντες" in both verse 14 and verse 19 seems to be used not like a normal participle, and I had assumed that it was not typical Koine Greek. Is it? And is it plural because it is indeed just a participle referring to "οι εργοδιωκται"?
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Re: Exo 5:14,19 - λεγοντες

Postby Stephen Carlson » April 14th, 2012, 11:38 am

Conybeare's Grammar of LXX Greek discusses these participles on p. 97 as some kind of an attempt to render a Hebrew gerund of the verb "to say."
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Re: Exo 5:14,19 - λεγοντες

Postby David Lim » April 14th, 2012, 12:00 pm

Stephen Carlson wrote:Conybeare's Grammar of LXX Greek discusses these participles on p. 97 as some kind of an attempt to render a Hebrew gerund of the verb "to say."


I was wondering about that possibility, and the grammar you cite mentions exactly those two instances:
Conybeare wrote:112. λεγων, etc., for the Hebrew Gerund. a. A special cause of irregularity in LXX Greek is the treatment of the Hebrew gerund of the verb to say' (= Lat. dicendo), which is constantly used to introduce speeches. As the Greek language has no gerund, this is rendered in the LXX by a participle. But the form being fixed in the Hebrew, the tendency is to keep it so in the Greek also. Hence it is quite the exception to find the participle agreeing with its subject, as in -
[...]
g. Where the principal verb is not one of saying, the divorce between it and the participle is complete, both in sense and grammar -
Ex. 5:14 εμαστιγωθησαν . . . λεγοντες, 5:19 εωρων . . . λεγοντες,
where the being beaten' and the seeing' are predicated of one set of persons and the saying' of another. Cp. the complex case in 1 Mac. 13:17,18.

Thanks a lot!
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