2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

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Stephen Hughes
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2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

Post by Stephen Hughes » December 17th, 2015, 1:27 pm

Two questions:
Is the phrase ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...
Ps.101:18 wrote:ἐπέβλεψεν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν τῶν ταπεινῶν
2Chr 6:19 wrote:καὶ ἐπιβλέψῃ ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν παιδός σου καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν δέησίν μου κύριε ὁ θεός τοῦ ἐπακοῦσαι τῆς δεήσεως καὶ τῆς προσευχῆς ἧς ὁ παῖς σου προσεύχεται ἐναντίον σου σήμερον
a particularly un-Greek one?

Does it have the meaning of "don't turn your face (attention) away from" (a fear that it won't be heard) or "give regard to the act of prayer (the fact that the prayer made an effort to pray)"?
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Ken M. Penner
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Re: 2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

Post by Ken M. Penner » December 17th, 2015, 1:35 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:Two questions:
Is the phrase ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...
Ps.101:18 wrote:ἐπέβλεψεν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν τῶν ταπεινῶν
2Chr 6:19 wrote:καὶ ἐπιβλέψῃ ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν παιδός σου καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν δέησίν μου κύριε ὁ θεός τοῦ ἐπακοῦσαι τῆς δεήσεως καὶ τῆς προσευχῆς ἧς ὁ παῖς σου προσεύχεται ἐναντίον σου σήμερον
a particularly un-Greek one?

Does it have the meaning of "don't turn your face (attention) away from" (a fear that it won't be heard) or "give regard to the act of prayer (the fact that the prayer made an effort to pray)"?
How about "consider", as in ἐπιβλέψατε δʼ ἐπὶ τὴν Θηβαίων πόλιν
Dinarchus, Dem. 72 wrote:What do you think it is, Athenians, that makes cities vary between good and evil fortunes? You will find only one cause: the counsellors and leaders. Take Thebes. It was a city; it became supreme.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: 2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

Post by Jonathan Robie » December 17th, 2015, 1:39 pm

This time of year, it makes me think of Luke 1:
Καὶ εἶπεν Μαριάμ· Μεγαλύνει ἡ ψυχή μου τὸν κύριον, καὶ ἠγαλλίασεν τὸ πνεῦμά μου ἐπὶ τῷ θεῷ τῷ σωτῆρί μου· ὅτι ἐπέβλεψεν ἐπὶ τὴν ταπείνωσιν τῆς δούλης αὐτοῦ, ἰδοὺ γὰρ ἀπὸ τοῦ νῦν μακαριοῦσίν με πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί· ὅτι ἐποίησέν μοι μεγάλα ὁ δυνατός, καὶ ἅγιον τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, καὶ τὸ ἔλεος αὐτοῦ εἰς γενεὰς καὶ γενεὰς τοῖς φοβουμένοις αὐτόν. Ἐποίησεν κράτος ἐν βραχίονι αὐτοῦ, διεσκόρπισεν ὑπερηφάνους διανοίᾳ καρδίας αὐτῶν· καθεῖλεν δυνάστας ἀπὸ θρόνων καὶ ὕψωσεν ταπεινούς, πεινῶντας ἐνέπλησεν ἀγαθῶν καὶ πλουτοῦντας ἐξαπέστειλεν κενούς. ἀντελάβετο Ἰσραὴλ παιδὸς αὐτοῦ, μνησθῆναι ἐλέους, καθὼς ἐλάλησεν πρὸς τοὺς πατέρας ἡμῶν, τῷ Ἀβραὰμ καὶ τῷ σπέρματι αὐτοῦ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα. Ἔμεινεν δὲ Μαριὰμ σὺν αὐτῇ ὡς μῆνας τρεῖς, καὶ ὑπέστρεψεν εἰς τὸν οἶκον αὐτῆς.
Abbott-Smith wrote:ἐπιβλέπω: verb
to look upon. In NT, as in LXX (I Ki 1:11 9:1, Ps 25:16; To 3:3, al.), to look on with favour: seq. ἐπί c. acc pers., Lk 1:48 9:38, Ja 2:3.† [G1914]
Ken M. Penner wrote:How about "consider", as in ἐπιβλέψατε δʼ ἐπὶ τὴν Θηβαίων πόλιν
I like that. You could rewrite the Abbott-Smith glosses as "consider" and "consider (with favor)".
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S Walch
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Re: 2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

Post by S Walch » December 17th, 2015, 1:44 pm

Well it's not an un-Greek one - Aristotle used επιβλεπειν επι in his Topics book 4 (link to read).

With that in mind, it's your second rather than first meaning you have down there "turn upon/examine closely/give heed".
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: 2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

Post by Stephen Hughes » December 17th, 2015, 2:32 pm

According to LSJ's usage data, most occurrences are quite late.
προσευχή , ἡ,
A.prayer, οἶκος προσευχῆς, of the Temple, LXXIs.56.7; “κατὰ τὰς κοινὰς ἡμῶν εὐχὰς καὶ προσευχάς” BGU1080.5 (iii A.D.).
II. place of prayer, sanctuary, chapel, IPE12.176 (Olbia), 2.52 (Panticapaeum); esp. among the Jews. synagogue, PEnteux.30.5 (iii B.C.), OGI726 (Egypt, iii B.C.), 96.6 (ibid., iii/ii B.C.), al., PTeb.86.18 (ii B.C.), Ph.2.523, J.Vit.54, Apion ap. eund.Ap.2.2, Act.Ap.16.13, Juv.3.296.
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Re: 2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

Post by Jonathan Robie » December 17th, 2015, 2:53 pm

προσ-ευχή is a fairly common word in the LXX and GNT (see http://lexicon.katabiblon.com/index.php ... 2F&lang=el), related to εὐχή, εὔχομαι.
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S Walch
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Re: 2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

Post by S Walch » December 17th, 2015, 3:13 pm

προσ-ευχή is pretty much the translational equivalent for the Hebrew תפִלה, which is mostly translated as "prayer", however I think that "plea" or "request" should be used more frequently than they are. "Request" makes a lot of sense for 2 Chron 6:19 and Psalm 101:18 (102:17 Heb), which would remove the supplication/thanksgiving/adoration/confession thoughts which usually come to mind in the modern use of "prayer".

So "consider the request" or "give heed to the request" would be my choice of translation for the above verses.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: 2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

Post by Stephen Hughes » December 17th, 2015, 11:31 pm

S Walch wrote:προσ-ευχή is pretty much the translational equivalent for the Hebrew תפִלה, which is mostly translated as "prayer", however I think that "plea" or "request" should be used more frequently than they are. "Request" makes a lot of sense for 2 Chron 6:19 and Psalm 101:18 (102:17 Heb), which would remove the supplication/thanksgiving/adoration/confession thoughts which usually come to mind in the modern use of "prayer".

So "consider the request" or "give heed to the request" would be my choice of translation for the above verses.
I see.

There is a certain incongruity between our usually translating it as prayer, and it meaning "synagogue" in Jewish papyri. Is there an explanation for that?
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: 2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

Post by Stephen Hughes » December 17th, 2015, 11:37 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:προσ-ευχή is a fairly common word in the LXX and GNT (see http://lexicon.katabiblon.com/index.php ... 2F&lang=el), related to εὐχή, εὔχομαι.
The discussions of synonymity that Katabiblon refers to in Trench there leave a wide margin for interpretation.

Trench Synonyms page 214.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: 2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν ...

Post by Stephen Hughes » December 17th, 2015, 11:43 pm

Ken M. Penner wrote:How about "consider", as in ἐπιβλέψατε δʼ ἐπὶ τὴν Θηβαίων πόλιν
Dinarchus, Dem. 72 wrote:What do you think it is, Athenians, that makes cities vary between good and evil fortunes? You will find only one cause: the counsellors and leaders. Take Thebes. It was a city; it became supreme.
Ken, are you choosing an example withἐπιβλέπειν collocated with a place significantly?
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

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