Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

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Stephen Hughes
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Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

Post by Stephen Hughes » August 27th, 2016, 8:43 pm

Isaiah 52:10 wrote:καὶ ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ τὸν ἅγιον ἐνώπιον πάντων τῶν ἐθνῶν καὶ ὄψονται πάντα τὰ ἄκρα τῆς γῆς τὴν σωτηρίαν τὴν παρὰ τοῦ θεοῦ
Also in the subject-affected voice.
Isaiah 53:1 wrote:κύριε τίς ἐπίστευσεν τῇ ἀκοῇ ἡμῶν καὶ ὁ βραχίων κυρίου τίνι ἀπεκαλύφθη
Does ἀποκαλύψειν here mean like he rolled up his sleeve and people could see his skin, or that he held it up high where it could be seen by all and sundry?
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S Walch
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Re: Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

Post by S Walch » August 28th, 2016, 12:56 am

Good question.

The Hebrew of Isa 52:10 makes it explicit in that Yahweh's arm is "laid bare" in the sense of having the clothing stripped from the body so as to expose (Hebrew חשף); Isa 53:1 uses a different word גלה which is more used in the sense of displaying/making clear, rather than the physical removal of clothes.

If I didn't have the Hebrew to go off, I'd have taken 52:10 as just in the sense of "displaying" Yahweh's arm (power etc.,).

Don't think there's anything in the context to go off in the Greek to understand it as a display of skin.

Looking through LXX Isaiah, the translator appears to use a more figurative translation of חשף rather than a complete literal one. Maybe having Yahweh "strip" was a bit too human-like for the translator?
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

Post by Stephen Hughes » August 28th, 2016, 1:04 pm

I know יַד is the Hebrew for "hand", and here זְר֫וֹעַ is used in some sense of "arm". The LXX word βραχίων has the possibility of a degree of flexibility in its meaning. Besides these two, is there a third, fourth, fifth or sixth Hebrew word corresponding to or somewhat overlapping with either καρπός, πῆχυς, ἀγκών or ὦμος? Is the concept of ἀγκάλη expressed with its own word in Hebrew?
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S Walch
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Re: Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

Post by S Walch » August 28th, 2016, 5:45 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:καρπός
פְּרִי
Has almost identical semantic range as καρπός does.
Stephen Hughes wrote:πῆχυς
אַמָּה
Though never used as anything other than a unit of measurement in the Tanakh.
Stephen Hughes wrote:ἀγκών
מַרְפֵּק

Not used in the Tanakh
Stephen Hughes wrote:ὦμος
שְׁכֶם is most common for "shoulder", but can mean "shoulder-blade"; however כָּתֵף is more common for shoulder-blade, though can refer to the shoulder as well.

See Job 31:22.
Stephen Hughes wrote:Is the concept of ἀγκάλη expressed with its own word in Hebrew?
Not that I know of - though in the case of "embracing" that would be חָבַק, albeit this is more to do with the folding of arms around someone, rather than just bending the arm.
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Re: Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

Post by Stephen Hughes » August 28th, 2016, 11:45 pm

S Walch wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:καρπός
פְּרִי
Has almost identical semantic range as καρπός does.
Here καρπός in this context means "wrist". Cf. Any of the "carpal" words you know.
S Walch wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:πῆχυς
אַמָּה
Though never used as anything other than a unit of measurement in the Tanakh.
Is it used for "forearm" in the DSS or other extra-Biblical literature? Does the LXX ever use anything other than אַמָּה for πῆχυς?

Speaking of measurements, is the other arm measurement - σπιθαμή "hand span" - used?
S Walch wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:ἀγκών
מַרְפֵּק

Not used in the Tanakh
What is used in the Tanakh where the LXX has ἀγκών?
S Walch wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:ὦμος
שְׁכֶם is most common for "shoulder", but can mean "shoulder-blade"; however כָּתֵף is more common for shoulder-blade, though can refer to the shoulder as well.

See Job 31:22.
Job 31:22 wrote:ἀποσταίη ἄρα ὁ ὦμός μου ἀπὸ τῆς κλειδός ὁ δὲ βραχίων μου ἀπὸ τοῦ ἀγκῶνός μου συντριβείη
I think ὦμος is used of the power-source of the arm's strength here - the "shoulder and upper arm". The κλείς is the clavicle, so is that talking about a dislocation or subluxation? βραχίων here is (down, away from the body) from the elbow, but that is necesarily the case in Isaiah 52:10 - there is a range of meanings.
S Walch wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:Is the concept of ἀγκάλη expressed with its own word in Hebrew?
Not that I know of - though in the case of "embracing" that would be חָבַק, albeit this is more to do with the folding of arms around someone, rather than just bending the arm.
I like this word, because it reminds me to resoect that Greek has its own way of structuring meaning.
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Re: Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

Post by S Walch » August 29th, 2016, 12:56 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:Here καρπός in this context means "wrist". Cf. Any of the "carpal" words you know.
Oops, thanks for the correction!

Hebrew is more descriptive rather than having a single word for the wrist - שורש כף היד literally "root of the palm of the hand".

Obviously not used in Tanakh, however closest is definitely Ezekiel 13:18 אַצִּילֵי יָדַי "joints of the hands" = "wrists".
Stephen Hughes wrote:Is it used for "forearm" in the DSS or other extra-Biblical literature?
Afraid I don't know. I'll see what I can find among my unread DSS docs.
Does the LXX ever use anything other than אַמָּה for πῆχυς?
Has it as a translation of יד in Prov 29:37 (31:19 Heb), though here is definitely using it as meaning "arm" rather than cubit.
Stephen Hughes wrote:Speaking of measurements, is the other arm measurement - σπιθαμή "hand span" - used?
That it is - זֶ֫רֶת - Is 40:12; Ex 28:16; 39:9; Ez 43:13; 1 S 17:4.
Stephen Hughes wrote:What is used in the Tanakh where the LXX has ἀγκών?
יָד:
2 Ch 9:18
קָנֶה:
Job 31:22
אַצִּיל:
Eze 13:18

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Job 31:22 wrote:ἀποσταίη ἄρα ὁ ὦμός μου ἀπὸ τῆς κλειδός ὁ δὲ βραχίων μου ἀπὸ τοῦ ἀγκῶνός μου συντριβείη
I think ὦμος is used of the power-source of the arm's strength here - the "shoulder and upper arm". The κλείς is the clavicle, so is that talking about a dislocation or subluxation? βραχίων here is (down, away from the body) from the elbow, but that is necesarily the case in Isaiah 52:10 - there is a range of meanings.
Apologies, was meaning the Hebrew rather than the Greek.

Though the Greek translation is rather interesting, as it seems to have swapped the two words (שְׁכֶם & כָּתֵף ) around.

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Re: Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

Post by Ken M. Penner » August 29th, 2016, 7:42 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:
S Walch wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:πῆχυς
אַמָּה
Though never used as anything other than a unit of measurement in the Tanakh.
The DCH indicates there have been emendations conjectured in Isaiah 59:16 אַמָּתוֹ הִיא סְמָכָֽתְהוּ and 63:5 אַמָּתִי for חֲמָתִי (both are parallel with זְרֹעַ). Also a it could refer to a forearm if repointed in Ps 91:4.
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S Walch
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Re: Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

Post by S Walch » August 31st, 2016, 1:56 am

Ken M. Penner wrote:The DCH indicates there have been emendations conjectured in Isaiah 59:16 אַמָּתוֹ הִיא סְמָכָֽתְהוּ and 63:5 אַמָּתִי for חֲמָתִי (both are parallel with זְרֹעַ). Also a it could refer to a forearm if repointed in Ps 91:4.
Does the DCH (Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, for those that don't know the abbreviation meaning), as per Stephen's question, mention any none-Biblical Hebrew literature uses of אמה as meaning anything other than cubit?

If all we have are some conjectures that it could mean "forearm" (though I'm all for ignoring the vowel-pointing in Psa 91:4; however the LXX's rendering is evidence against reading it as forearm), then surely we need to change the definition of the word to mean just "cubit"?
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Re: Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

Post by Ken M. Penner » August 31st, 2016, 8:09 am

S Walch wrote:
Ken M. Penner wrote:The DCH indicates there have been emendations conjectured in Isaiah 59:16 אַמָּתוֹ הִיא סְמָכָֽתְהוּ and 63:5 אַמָּתִי for חֲמָתִי (both are parallel with זְרֹעַ). Also a it could refer to a forearm if repointed in Ps 91:4.
Does the DCH (Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, for those that don't know the abbreviation meaning), as per Stephen's question, mention any none-Biblical Hebrew literature uses of אמה as meaning anything other than cubit?

If all we have are some conjectures that it could mean "forearm" (though I'm all for ignoring the vowel-pointing in Psa 91:4; however the LXX's rendering is evidence against reading it as forearm), then surely we need to change the definition of the word to mean just "cubit"?
The DCH does not provide any clear Hebrew uses of as a body part. The closest I could find is the Talmud, b. Soṭah 12b, in which there is a dispute whether Exodus 2:5 mentions Pharaoh's daughter's servant or her hand.
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Re: Is.52:10 ἀποκαλύψει κύριος τὸν βραχίονα αὐτοῦ

Post by S Walch » August 31st, 2016, 8:20 am

Ken M. Penner wrote:
S Walch wrote:
Ken M. Penner wrote:The DCH indicates there have been emendations conjectured in Isaiah 59:16 אַמָּתוֹ הִיא סְמָכָֽתְהוּ and 63:5 אַמָּתִי for חֲמָתִי (both are parallel with זְרֹעַ). Also a it could refer to a forearm if repointed in Ps 91:4.
Does the DCH (Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, for those that don't know the abbreviation meaning), as per Stephen's question, mention any none-Biblical Hebrew literature uses of אמה as meaning anything other than cubit?

If all we have are some conjectures that it could mean "forearm" (though I'm all for ignoring the vowel-pointing in Psa 91:4; however the LXX's rendering is evidence against reading it as forearm), then surely we need to change the definition of the word to mean just "cubit"?
The DCH does not provide any clear Hebrew uses of as a body part. The closest I could find is the Talmud, b. Soṭah 12b, in which there is a dispute whether Exodus 2:5 mentions Pharaoh's daughter's servant or her hand.
Ta.

So the idea of אמה as referring to a forearm is pretty much none-existent in ancient Hebrew literature.

There's your answer, Stephen :)
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