TestReub 6:3 - Logos Greek text and morphology questions

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Eric S. Weiss
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TestReub 6:3 - Logos Greek text and morphology questions

Post by Eric S. Weiss » July 17th, 2011, 9:37 pm

Testament of Reuben 6:3 according to the OT Pseudepigrapha Greek Texts in Logos Bible Software: Penner, K., & Heiser, M. S. (2008). Old Testament Greek pseudepigrapha with morphology. Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

hAI GAR SUNECEIS SUNTUCIAI, K'AN MH PRACQHi TO ASEBHMA, AUTAIS MEN ESTI NOSOS ANIATOS, hHMIN DE ONEIDOS TOU BELIAR AIWNION

James Charlesworth translates this as:
3 [pure in their minds - this is the end of 6:2 in the Greek text]. For even recurrent chance meetings -- although the impious act itself is not committed -- are for these women an incurable disease, but for us they are the plague of Beliar and an eternal disgrace.

R.H Charles translates this as:
3 For constant meetings, even though the ungodly deed be not wrought, are to them an irremediable disease, and to us a destruction of Beliar and an eternal reproach.

BDAG for OLEQROS states:
OLEQROS...(1)...OL.AIWNIOS eternal death (TestReub 6:3) 2 Th 1:9.

I have a couple questions:

1. It appears to me that my Greek Pseudepigrapha has accidentally omitted KAI OLEQRON before AIWNION.

2. Why does my Logos morphology show that ONEIDOS and AIWNION are accusative, instead of nominative as NOSOS ANIOTOS? If the text indeed says AIWNION instead of AIWNIOS, then I guess it would be accusative, but it seems to me that ONEIDOS and [OLEQRON] and AIWNION in ONEIDOS TOU BELIAR [KAI OLEQRON] AIWNION should be in the same case as NOSOS ANIATOS in AUTAIS MEN ESTI NOSOS ANIATOS.
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Eric S. Weiss

George F Somsel
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Re: TestReub 6:3 - Logos Greek text and morphology questions

Post by George F Somsel » July 17th, 2011, 10:32 pm

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george
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Ken M. Penner
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Re: TestReub 6:3 - Logos Greek text and morphology questions

Post by Ken M. Penner » July 18th, 2011, 5:43 am

Eric S. Weiss wrote: 1. It appears to me that my Greek Pseudepigrapha has accidentally omitted KAI OLEQRON before AIWNION.

2. Why does my Logos morphology show that ONEIDOS and AIWNION are accusative, instead of nominative as NOSOS ANIOTOS? If the text indeed says AIWNION instead of AIWNIOS, then I guess it would be accusative, but it seems to me that ONEIDOS and [OLEQRON] and AIWNION in ONEIDOS TOU BELIAR [KAI OLEQRON] AIWNION should be in the same case as NOSOS ANIATOS in AUTAIS MEN ESTI NOSOS ANIATOS.
Hi Eric,

1. Kee (the translator of T12 in Charlesworth's OTP) writes:
The textual basis for this translation is the critical edition of R. H. Charles, although some readings have been adopted from the β text published by M. de Jonge, usually in the interests of literary coherence or clarity of meaning (776).
De Jonge's commentary is available on Google Books, and reads (for 6.3):
For the continuous meetings,
even though the impious deed is not
are to them an irremediable disease
and to us an eternal reproach of Beliar.
De Jonge's text is available on Google Books. It reads like the Logos text, and has a note:
ὄνειδος τοῦ Βελιάρ] εἰς ὄλεθρον τῷ
(< h i j) Βελιὰρ καὶ ὄνειδος c h i j
Charles' edition is available on archive.org, and has the following at TReu 6.3:
TReu 6.3.jpg
Charles on TReu 6.3
TReu 6.3.jpg (20.53 KiB) Viewed 1441 times
So it seems that only manuscripts c, h, i, and j have εἰς ὄλεθρον. De Jonge believes only manuscripts b and k preserve the original text.

2. George is right that these two neuter words should be nominative (unless the reading with εἰς in c h i j is followed). I checked the morphology xml files I created for Logos for TReu 6, fully expecting to see I had made a parsing mistake, and discovered I had correctly parsed ὄνειδος and αἰώνιον as nominatives. So I don't know where that error entered in.
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Ken M. Penner
St. Francis Xavier University

Eric S. Weiss
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Re: TestReub 6:3 - Logos Greek text and morphology questions

Post by Eric S. Weiss » July 18th, 2011, 6:12 am

Thanks, Ken. I double-checked the Logos parsing of these words via mouseover (but didn't think to also display the morphology interlinearly) before posting this to make sure I was correct in what I wrote here and at the Logos forums.
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Eric S. Weiss

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Re: TestReub 6:3 - Logos Greek text and morphology questions

Post by cwconrad » July 18th, 2011, 7:50 am

Ken M. Penner wrote:George is right that these two neuter words should be nominative (unless the reading with εἰς in c h i j is followed). I checked the morphology xml files I created for Logos for TReu 6, fully expecting to see I had made a parsing mistake, and discovered I had correctly parsed ὄνειδος and αἰώνιον as nominatives. So I don't know where that error entered in.
This probably should have a different subject-header. I just wanted to make a comment on the topic of tagging of inflected forms in digitized texts. For one who can read Greek the parsing is of no value except when one wants to analyze the constructions and explain the usage, whether in traditional grammatical or in formal Linguistic terms. Where the tagging becomes useful is when doing statistical analysis, which is, I think, very useful indeed. But tagging errors are like typos, such simple and almost inevitable human errors that are hard to correct. Perhaps some people are far better than I at proofreading their own work, but I just can't do a good job of proofreading on my own work; I think that having one's work checked by another is a real necessity that, unfortunately, can't always be afforded.
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οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

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