2 Maccabees 3:11 Gottingen text

Forum rules
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Post Reply
Matthew Longhorn
Posts: 216
Joined: November 10th, 2017, 2:48 pm
Contact:

2 Maccabees 3:11 Gottingen text

Post by Matthew Longhorn » May 12th, 2019, 1:57 pm

I am reading through 2 Maccabees as a sideline to Josephus’ Antiquities at the moment and come across the following in 3:10-11

τοῦ δὲ ἀρχιερέως ὑποδείξαντος παρακαταθήκας εἶναι χηρῶν τε καὶ ὀρφανῶν, 11 τινὰ δὲ καὶ Ὑρκανοῦ τοῦ Τωβίου σφόδρα ἀνδρὸς ἐν ὑπεροχῇ κειμένου, οὐχ ὡς διαβάλλων ἦν ὁ δυσσεβὴς Σίμων, τὰ δὲ πάντα ἀργυρίου τετρακόσια τάλαντα, χρυσίου δὲ διακόσια
I am pretty sure that the bold text is an error in the accordance version of the Gottingen text but was wondering if anyone has a non-accordance version they could check? It doesn’t make sense contextually to say that it was not as if he were deceiving. Rather the text in my LXX which uses οὕτως makes more sense here.
0 x



MAubrey
Posts: 990
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 8:52 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: 2 Maccabees 3:11 Gottingen text

Post by MAubrey » May 12th, 2019, 4:47 pm

οὐχ ὡς is the Logos edition, too.

I'm not well versed in parsing the Gottingen apparatus, but here's what it says:
pr. και L′−62 46-52 58 311 LaXBM Sy | ὡς διαβάλλων ἦν] ουτως διαβαλλων A; ωσπερ ην διαβαλων L′ (-βολων 19; -βαλλων 542)
Seems legit.
0 x
Mike Aubrey, Linguist
Koine-Greek.com

Matthew Longhorn
Posts: 216
Joined: November 10th, 2017, 2:48 pm
Contact:

Re: 2 Maccabees 3:11 Gottingen text

Post by Matthew Longhorn » May 12th, 2019, 5:10 pm

Thanks Mike, back to the drawing board for me on understanding the text then!
0 x

Stirling Bartholomew
Posts: 956
Joined: August 9th, 2012, 4:19 pm

Re: 2 Maccabees 3:11 Gottingen text

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » May 12th, 2019, 6:39 pm

οὕτως ἦν διαβάλλων ὁ δυσσεβὴς Σιμων –Rahlfs

οὐχ ὡς διαβάλλων ἦν ὁ δυσσεβὴς Σίμων –Gott.

“To such an extent the impious Simon had misrepresented the facts.” –NRSVA, NETS

LEH διαβάλλω+ V 0-0-0-3-2-5
Dn 3:8; DnTh 6:25; 2 Mc 3:11; 4 Mc 4:1
to calumniate, to speak slanderously 4 Mc 4:1; to accuse [τινα] Dn 3:8; to accuse about, to injure with [ὑπέρ τινος] 4 Mc 4:1; to misinform [abs.] 2 Mc 3:11;

LSJ
VI. deceive by false accounts, impose upon, mislead, τινά Hdt.3.1, 5.50, 8.110, E.Fr.435:—Med., Hdt.9.116, Ar.Av.1648 (ubi v. Sch.), Th.1214:—Pass., Hp.Nat.Puer.30, Pl.Phdr.255a, Plu.2.563d.

The NRSV and NETS appear to ignore –Gott. οὐχ ὡς διαβάλλων ἦν.
Last edited by Stirling Bartholomew on May 12th, 2019, 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
0 x
C. Stirling Bartholomew

Peng Huiguo
Posts: 46
Joined: April 28th, 2019, 2:02 am

Re: 2 Maccabees 3:11 Gottingen text

Post by Peng Huiguo » May 12th, 2019, 6:52 pm

διαβάλλω just means accuse, not necessarily to slander. ούχ ὡς actually makes better sense: "These deposits are for legit uses, not as charged by Simon". LEH makes the word more negative than it is. Be careful with lexicons.

NETS moves the Simon clause to the back and intensifies its slander dimension to resolve the difficulty of οὕτως. Clever.
The high priest explained that there were some deposits belonging to widows and orphans and also some money of Hyrcanus son of Tobias, a man of very prominent position, and that it totalled in all four hundred talents of silver and two hundred of gold. To such an extent the impious Simon had misrepresented the facts.
Last edited by Peng Huiguo on May 12th, 2019, 7:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.
0 x

Ken M. Penner
Posts: 785
Joined: May 12th, 2011, 7:50 am
Location: Antigonish, NS, Canada
Contact:

Re: 2 Maccabees 3:11 Gottingen text

Post by Ken M. Penner » May 12th, 2019, 6:56 pm

The Lexham English Septuagint has “It was not as the impious Simon misinformed”
1 x
Ken M. Penner
St. Francis Xavier University

Post Reply

Return to “Septuagint and Pseudepigrapha”