[Dickey] Ch 2: Preliminary Exercises

A subforum for working through Eleanor Dickey's An Introduction to the Composition and Analysis of Greek Prose, which can be purchased online at Cambridge press or Amazon.

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Daniel Semler
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 2, Preliminary Exercises

Post by Daniel Semler » August 25th, 2019, 10:38 pm

Jason Hare wrote:
August 25th, 2019, 10:09 am
I learned μέλλω simply as "about (to happen)" or "coming," as in ὁ μέλλων αἰών, τὸ μέλλον κρίμα κτλ. I had never made any connection to the concept of "delay" with infinitive or that we should expect it to be used with a future participle to mean "about to..." I feel like I'm just filling in a lexical gap with that term.
Future infinitive right ? I was struck by the future vs non-future infinitive distinction here.

But then I was also struck by the helpful note between the "Useful reference texts" section and the Accentuation section which reads, in sizeable capitals:

IMPORTANT NOTE: ALMOST EVERY RULE PRESENTED IN THIS BOOK HAS EXCEPTIONS, MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT MENTIONED.

Thx
D
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Jason Hare
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 2, Preliminary Exercises

Post by Jason Hare » August 26th, 2019, 9:41 am

Daniel Semler wrote:
August 25th, 2019, 10:38 pm
Jason Hare wrote:
August 25th, 2019, 10:09 am
I learned μέλλω simply as "about (to happen)" or "coming," as in ὁ μέλλων αἰών, τὸ μέλλον κρίμα κτλ. I had never made any connection to the concept of "delay" with infinitive or that we should expect it to be used with a future participle to mean "about to..." I feel like I'm just filling in a lexical gap with that term.
Future infinitive right ? I was struck by the future vs non-future infinitive distinction here.

But then I was also struck by the helpful note between the "Useful reference texts" section and the Accentuation section which reads, in sizeable capitals:

IMPORTANT NOTE: ALMOST EVERY RULE PRESENTED IN THIS BOOK HAS EXCEPTIONS, MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT MENTIONED.

Thx
D
Wow! Yes, future infinitive. Good thing I didn't start putting together sentences with it and memorize it incorrectly!
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Jason A. Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 2, Preliminary Exercises

Post by Jason Hare » August 26th, 2019, 4:17 pm

Preliminary exercise 1 (on A and B).
  1. ἀγαθὸν δοῦλον // δοῦλον ἀγαθόν
  2. ὁ ἀγαθὸς δοῦλος // ὁ δοῦλος ὁ ἀγαθός
  3. τὸν ἐν ἀγορᾷ δοῦλον // τὸν δοῦλον τὸν ἐν ἀγορᾷ
  4. τῷ τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ δούλῳ // τῷ δούλῳ τῷ τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ
  5. ὁ τοῦ νέου δοῦλος // ὁ δοῦλος ὁ τοῦ νέου
  6. τῶν δούλων τῶν νεανιῶν [Cannot translate given vocab restrictions.]
  7. δοῦλος νέος // νέος δοῦλος
  8. τῷ νέῳ δούλῳ τῷ τῆς ἀγαθῆς // τῷ τῆς ἀγαθῆς δούλῳ τῷ νέῳ
  9. τοῦ τῆς ἀγαθῆς δούλου // τοῦ δούλου τοῦ τῆς ἀγαθῆς
  10. ταῖς ἐν ἀγορᾷ νέαις // ταῖς νέαις ταῖς ἐν ἀγορᾷ
  11. δοῦλοι τῶν νέων
  12. τὸν δοῦλον τὸν τῆς ἐν ἀγορᾷ // τὸν τῆς ἐν ἀγορᾷ δοῦλον
  13. δούλων τῆς νέας
  14. ὁ ἀγαθὸς δοῦλος ὁ τῆς νέας // ὁ τῆς νέας δοῦλος ὁ ἀγαθός
  15. τοῦ δούλου τοῦ νεανίσκου [Cannot translate given vocab restrictions.]
  16. τῶν ἐν ἀγορᾷ νέων // τῶν νέων τῶν ἐν ἀγορᾷ
  17. τοῦ δούλου τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ καὶ νέου // τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ δούλου τοῦ νέου // τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ καὶ νέου δούλου
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Jason A. Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 2, Preliminary Exercises

Post by Jason Hare » August 26th, 2019, 4:20 pm

EricSowell wrote:
August 17th, 2019, 6:18 pm
q. the good young slave (gen. 3 ways)
* τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ δούλου τοῦ νέου
* τοῦ δούλου τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ καὶ νέου
* τοῦ νέου δούλου τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ
* τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ καὶ νέου δούλου - would this be possible?
Yes, I think it's preferable to your third option, which would change the structure of the translation from the good young slave to the young good slave.
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Jason A. Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 2, Preliminary Exercises

Post by Jason Hare » August 26th, 2019, 4:51 pm

Preliminary exercise 2 (on C).
  1. ἀγαθὸς ὁ δοῦλος // ὁ δοῦλος ἀγαθός
  2. ἀγαθὸς ὁ ἀδελφός // ὁ ἀδελφὸς ἀγαθός
  3. δοῦλος ὁ ἀδελφός // ὁ ἀδελφὸς δοῦλος
  4. ἀδελφὸς ὁ δοῦλος // ὁ δοῦλος ἀδελφός
  5. οὗτος ὁ δοῦλος // ὁ δοῦλος οὗτος
  6. ταῦτα [ἐκεῖνα]
  7. τούτους τοὺς λίθους
  8. ταύταις [ἐκείναις]
  9. τούτου
  10. τούτους τοὺς ἀδελφούς // τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς τούτους
  11. ὁ μέσος ἀδελφός
  12. ἐν τῷ μέσῳ λίθῳ
  13. ἐν μέσῳ τῷ λίθῳ // ἐν τῷ λίθῳ μέσῳ
  14. μόνος ὁ ἀδελφός
  15. τὸν μόνον ἀδεφλόν
  16. μόνου τοῦ ἀδεφλοῦ
  17. τοῖς μόνοις δούλοις
  18. μόνων τῶν δούλων
  19. μόνοι οἱ λίθοι (ἔμειναν). // οἱ λίθοι μόνοι (ἔμειναν).
  20. ὁ μόνος λίθος
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Jason A. Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 2, Preliminary Exercises

Post by Jason Hare » August 26th, 2019, 5:11 pm

Preliminary exercise 3 (on E).
  1. τῷ μανθάνειν // τῷ μαθεῖν
  2. διὰ τὸ μανθάνειν // διὰ τὸ μαθεῖν
  3. τῷ λίθους ἐσθίειν // τῷ φαγεῖν λίθους
  4. διὰ τὸ λίθους φαγεῖν // διὰ τὸ ἐσθίειν λίθους
  5. οὐκ ἀγαθὸν τὸ λίθους φαγεῖν.
  6. ἀγαθὸν τὸ μὴ φαγεῖν λίθους. // ἀγαθὸν τὸ λίθους μὴ φαγεῖν.
  7. ἀγαθὸν τὸ δούλους μαθεῖν.
  8. οὐκ ἀγαθὸν τὸ δούλους μὴ μανθάνειν.
  9. τῷ ταῦτα θύειν // τῷ θῦσαι ταῦτα
  10. διὰ τὸ τούτους θύειν
  11. οὐκ ἀγαθὸν τὸ ταῦτα μὴ θῦσαι.
  12. ἀγαθὸν τὸ τούτους θῦσαι.
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Jason A. Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 2, Preliminary Exercises

Post by Jason Hare » August 26th, 2019, 5:38 pm

Preliminary exercise 4 (on F and G).
  1. αἱ καλαὶ οὐ μανθάνουσιν. // οὐ μανθάνουσιν αἱ καλαί.
  2. ἄγγελος ὁ ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ. // [with ἐστίν] ὁ ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ ἐστὶν ἄγγελος.
  3. αἱ μὴ καλαὶ οὐ μανθάνουσιν. // οὐ μανθάνουσιν αἱ μὴ καλαί.
  4. ἄγγελοι οἱ καλοί. // [with εἰσίν] οἱ καλοί εἰσιν ἄγγελοι.
  5. αἱ οὐ καλαὶ μανθάνουσιν. // μανθάνουσιν αἱ οὺ καλαί.
  6. ἀδελφαὶ αἱ κακαί. // [with εἰσίν] αἱ κακαί εἰσιν ἀδελφαί.
  7. οἱ οὐ κακοὶ μανθάνουσιν. // μανθάνουσιν οἱ οὐ κακοί.
  8. ἀδελφαὶ αἱ ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ. // [with εἰσίν] αἱ ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ εἰσὶν ἀδελφαί.
  9. οἱ οὐ κακοὶ οὐ μανθάνουσιν. // οὐ μανθάνουσιν οἱ οὐ κακοί.
  10. ἀδελφαὶ αἱ καλαί. // [with εἰσίν] αἱ καλαί εἰσιν ἀδελφαί.
  11. οἱ μὴ κακοὶ οὐ μανθάνουσιν.
  12. κακοὶ οἱ ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ. // [with εἰσίν] οἱ ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ εἰσὶν κακοί.
  13. οἱ κακοὶ οὐ μανθάνουσιν. // οὐ μανθάνουσιν οἱ κακοί.
  14. ἄγγελος ὁ κακός. // [with ἐστίν] ὁ κακός ἐστιν ἄγγελος.
  15. καλὴ ἡ ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ. // [with ἐστίν] καλή ἐστιν ἡ ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ.
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Jason A. Hare
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Daniel Semler
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 2, Preliminary Exercises

Post by Daniel Semler » August 27th, 2019, 10:28 pm

Hi Jason,

Thanx for posting these.

I've compared mine and yours and corrected a number of mine to yours.
A query below though :
Jason Hare wrote:
August 26th, 2019, 5:38 pm
Preliminary exercise 4 (on F and G).
e. οἱ μὴ κακοὶ μανθάνουσιν. // μανθάνουσιν οἱ μὴ κακοί.
Wouldn't this be οὐ as it's specific rather than general ?

Thx
D
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Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 2, Preliminary Exercises

Post by Jason Hare » August 28th, 2019, 5:44 am

Daniel Semler wrote:
August 27th, 2019, 10:28 pm
Hi Jason,

Thanx for posting these.

I've compared mine and yours and corrected a number of mine to yours.
A query below though :
Jason Hare wrote:
August 26th, 2019, 5:38 pm
Preliminary exercise 4 (on F and G).
e. οἱ μὴ κακοὶ μανθάνουσιν. // μανθάνουσιν οἱ μὴ κακοί.
Wouldn't this be οὐ as it's specific rather than general ?

Thx
D
You're absolutely correct. There are so many of these sentences that it kinda overwhelms me when I'm going through them one after the other. I read it as general, but it's certainly supposed to be specific. I'll make the correction. Thanks!

When I got to the Sentences section of this chapter, I made myself a new system. I type out the exercise as it is in the book into Word. Then I put a blank line after it, translate it in the blank line, and finally delete the exercise itself and leave my translation. Hopefully, this will help me keep my eyes on the specific sentence as I translate.
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Jason A. Hare
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Daniel Semler
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Joined: February 18th, 2019, 7:45 pm

Re: Dickey, Composition: Ch 2, Preliminary Exercises

Post by Daniel Semler » August 28th, 2019, 9:51 am

Jason Hare wrote:
August 28th, 2019, 5:44 am

There are so many of these sentences that it kinda overwhelms me when I'm going through them one after the other.
True enough but I think Dickey is right to provide a lot of practice material. It needs to become second nature so it pretty much has to be that way I think.
Jason Hare wrote:
August 28th, 2019, 5:44 am
When I got to the Sentences section of this chapter, I made myself a new system. I type out the exercise as it is in the book into Word. Then I put a blank line after it, translate it in the blank line, and finally delete the exercise itself and leave my translation. Hopefully, this will help me keep my eyes on the specific sentence as I translate.
I'm doing something similar with the Analysis in LibreOffice though I keep all the copies - partly using it as Greek typing practice. I'm still doing the Sentences by hand but I may move to something like you're doing there too, soon.

Thx
D
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