Contemporary lexicons

Other Greek writings of the New Testament era, including papyri and inscriptions
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Jesse Goulet
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Contemporary lexicons

Post by Jesse Goulet » May 18th, 2014, 1:15 am

What lexicons are out there for those wanting to learn vocabulary outside of the New Testament?

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

If you have a particular authour in mind...

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 18th, 2014, 2:10 am

If you have a particular contemporary authour in mind you can use this; Perseus vocabulary tool.

I used to have the idea that Modern Greek derived from the NT lexical stock, but after looking over the greater Koine a bit, I find many words there that were in Modern Greek, but are not in the NT.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Contemporary lexicons

Post by Jonathan Robie » May 20th, 2014, 6:55 am

Are there any good Hellenistic lexicons that include the NT and contemporary literature? I've never tried using BDAG when reading, say, Epictetus - how well does it serve as a general purpose Hellenistic lexicon?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

cwconrad
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Re: Contemporary lexicons

Post by cwconrad » May 20th, 2014, 9:02 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:Are there any good Hellenistic lexicons that include the NT and contemporary literature? I've never tried using BDAG when reading, say, Epictetus - how well does it serve as a general purpose Hellenistic lexicon?
This is a d**n good question! I suspect that there's only LSJ-G. I'm reminded of a comment by Toynbee in one of those later sententious books, probably Hellenism, that students of antiquity pay all too much attention to the archaic and classical Athenian eras and all too little to the Hellenistic era, from which survive vast corpora of literary and non-literary texts, artifacts, etc. That certainly applies to the resources for students of Hellenistic literature and documents also: I know there are works on the papyri, but our published grammars and lexica of Hellenistic Greek are rather narrowly restricted in scope to Biblical, Jewish and Christian texts, aren't they?
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Stephen Hughes
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Greek to Greek lexicon

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 20th, 2014, 10:15 am

If you are up to reading definitions in a very high register of katharevousa, then the Μέγα λεξικόν όλης της ελληνικής γλώσσης: Great dictionary of the Greek language (Ancient & Modern) by Dimitris Dimitrakos (Δημήτρης Δημητράκος) (1964) might do you.

If we count one meaning as 1, and therefore words with only one meaning as 1, and polysemic words as 15, 20, or 30, then you will need to use less than 1/4 of that lexicon's entries for Koine Greek, so far as I can reasonably guestimate. If each word is counted as 1 (and polysemy is ignored in the count), then it is a slightly more than 1/3 of it.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Greek to Greek lexicon

Post by Jonathan Robie » May 20th, 2014, 10:46 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:If you are up to reading definitions in a very high register of katharevousa, then the Μέγα λεξικόν όλης της ελληνικής γλώσσης: Great dictionary of the Greek language (Ancient & Modern) by Dimitris Dimitrakos (Δημήτρης Δημητράκος) (1964) might do you.

If we count one meaning as 1, and therefore words with only one meaning as 1, and polysemic words as 15, 20, or 30, then you will need to use less than 1/4 of that lexicon's entries for Koine Greek, so far as I can reasonably guestimate. If each word is counted as 1 (and polysemy is ignored in the count), then it is a slightly more than 1/3 of it.
I don't think that's what I'm looking for. Not only does it list words that I don't want, it lists usages of each word that are not Hellenistic usages, and gives a different overall sense of the language.

If I need a map of Central Park, a map of the United States probably isn't as helpful. I want more detail on the things that interest me most, and I want to ignore all of the stuff that isn't relevant to what I am doing at the time. That's why BDAG or even Abbott-Smith can be so helpful for the GNT. I'm looking for something like that for Hellenistic Greek.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Stephen Hughes
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Specialists and general readers, repositories of slips

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 20th, 2014, 11:33 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:Are there any good Hellenistic lexicons that include the NT and contemporary literature? I've never tried using BDAG when reading, say, Epictetus - how well does it serve as a general purpose Hellenistic lexicon?
General Koine literature uses in excess of 35,000 words, BDAG supplies about 1/5th of that. If you are satisfied with reading less than 80% of the words in a text, it will suit you adequately. Texts that are more similar to the NT are better catered for, and so on. Any time you see, "in our literature" it seems to refer to there being another bulk of the iceberg waiting to be explored.

Lesser-used words in the NT become used in different senses and more than once or twice, and they are revealed as members of a set of parts of speech, not as lone words.
Jonathan Robie wrote:Not only does it list words that I don't want, it lists usages of each word that are not Hellenistic usages, and gives a different overall sense of the language.
cwconrad wrote:students of antiquity pay all too much attention to the archaic and classical Athenian eras and all too little to the Hellenistic era, from which survive vast corpora of literary and non-literary texts, artifacts, etc. That certainly applies to the resources for students of Hellenistic literature and documents also: I know there are works on the papyri, but our published grammars and lexica of Hellenistic Greek are rather narrowly restricted in scope to Biblical, Jewish and Christian texts, aren't they?
Hellenistic studies has traditionally been a specialist option in Classical studies, so the needs of the general reader are not so well catered for. The Μέγα λεξικόν has the same draw-backs as LSJ, which covers a very wide range of time periods and generes. The solution for dealing with it is the same too - looking at the abbreviations (authours' names and works). But neither of them were every meant to do that.

It is enough for them to give one example or one reference for each sub-meaning of a word, but that is not itself exhaustive enough for us to see which sub-meanings were in use at given times.

What is needed is a sub-meaning by sub-meaning cross-relation with texts, rather than the present inadequate word by word cross reference to texts. The processing technology is capable of handling that sort of complexity now, but it requires intelligent tagging. That is not easy, because we (you) are working to digitalise from the finished lexicon, not from the "slips". Presumably, there is a repository of the slips for the great lexica, out of which they pick one or two examples to be listed and published. Those slips will be arranged into sub-meanings. They may not have undergone the same number of quality checks as the finished product has though.

Now without the consideration of the cost of printing and binding, or the manageabilty of a bulky volume, a lot of that information could be included, but it is not readily available to include, only the selected is. BDAG is commendable for its relatively exaustive attention to that.

Perseus has a user select / vote thing that comes sometimes to ask which form I think it is. I would also like to be able to vote as to which meaning it is too.

At that point the lexicon and the concordance merge as a concept. The compilation team still has to make value judgements for summary dictionary entries, and if it is possible for register and genere (such as co-build does).
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Specialists and general readers, repositories of slips

Post by Jonathan Robie » May 20th, 2014, 12:11 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:Are there any good Hellenistic lexicons that include the NT and contemporary literature? I've never tried using BDAG when reading, say, Epictetus - how well does it serve as a general purpose Hellenistic lexicon?
General Koine literature uses in excess of 35,000 words, BDAG supplies about 1/5th of that.
That's the kind of thing I was asking about. What is the source of these figures?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3332
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Filling out the parts of speech

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 20th, 2014, 12:33 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:Are there any good Hellenistic lexicons that include the NT and contemporary literature? I've never tried using BDAG when reading, say, Epictetus - how well does it serve as a general purpose Hellenistic lexicon?
General Koine literature uses in excess of 35,000 words, BDAG supplies about 1/5th of that.
That's the kind of thing I was asking about. What is the source of these figures?
Stephen Hughes wrote:If you have a particular contemporary authour in mind you can use this; Perseus vocabulary tool.

I used to have the idea that Modern Greek derived from the NT lexical stock, but after looking over the greater Koine a bit, I find many words there that were in Modern Greek, but are not in the NT.
By includiing what authours I could in that search, the figures max at a bit over 35,000. Half the authours give perhaps 26,000 - 28,000 (depending on which are chosen). Going from that figure to the 35,000 includes a lot of filling in of the parts of speech. For the group:
  • ζωγραφεῖον painter's studio
    ζωγραφέω paint from life, paint
    ζωγράφημα a picture
    ζωγραφία art of painting
    ζωγραφικός skilled in painting
    ζωγράφος one who paints from life
various combinations of authours return various parts of speech, and miss others. ζωγράφημα is the least likely to show up. Really there are two groups here, the action / result ζωγραφεῖον, ζωγραφεῖν, ζωγράφημα) and the person / skill (ζωγραφία, ζωγραφικός, ζωγράφος), so perhaps if a smaller sample returned at least one from each group, then that would be enough for this set.

2,000,000 words seems to be a stable sample.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

A fuller list for colour, dying, tattooing and painting

Post by Stephen Hughes » May 20th, 2014, 12:47 pm

Not because it is finished (caveat lector), but because it is topical to what we are discussing here, I am presenting a fuller list of words for colour, dying, tattooing and painting.

You could compare it with L&N. It will give you an idea of the relative scope of the New Testament vocabulary.
----------------
χρῶμα skin,
χρωματικός of, relating to colour
χρωματοποιία laying on of colour
χρώς skin
χρῶσις colouring, tinting,
χρωτίζω colour,
ἀνθοβαφής bright-coloured,
ἀνθοβάφος dyerin bright colours,
ἀπόχρωσις laying on colour,
ἀχρωμάτιστος uncoloured,
ἀχρώματος colourless,
διαζωγραφέω paint in divers colours,
ἐρυθρόχροος redcoloured,
ἐρυθρός red,
ἐρυθρότης redness, ruddiness,
ἑτεροχροιότης difference of colour
ἑτερόχροος of different colour
εὔχροος well-coloured, of good
εὔχρους well-coloured, of good complexion, fresh-looking, healthy
θάψινος yellow-coloured, yellow, sallow
ἰάζω to be of a violet colour
ἰάνθινος violet-coloured
κροκοειδής saffron-coloured
κροκώδης saffron-coloured
κροκωτός saffron-dyed, saffron-coloured
κυάνεος made of
κυανέω to be dark in colour
κυανίζω [unavailable]
κυανοειδής dark-blue, deep-blue
κυανόπρῳρος darkprowed
κύανος dark-blue enamel
κυανοχαίτης dark-haired
κυανῶπις dark-looking
κυάνωσις dark-blue colour
λέκιθος yolk of an egg
λεκιθώδης yolk-coloured
λευκόχροια whiteness, white colour,
λευκόω whiten over
λιβανόχρους frankincense coloured
μετανθέω change its colour
ξανθίζω make yellow
Ξανθικός [unavailable]
ξανθόθριξ yellow-haired
ξάνθοθριξ yellow-haired,
ξανθός yellow,
Ξάνθος Xanthus.
ξανθότης yellowness,
ξανθοτριχέω have yellow hair,
ξανθόω dye yellow,
ὁμοχροέω to be of the same colour,
ὁμόχροος of one colour,
ὁμοχρώματος [unavailable]
ὁμόχρως [unavailable]
ποικιλία marking with various colours, embroidering,
ποικιλίας fish,
ποικίλλω work in various colours, work in embroidery,
ποίκιλμα broidered stuff, brocade,
ποικιλμός elaboration, refinement,
ποικιλογράφος writing on various subjects,
ποικιλόθροος of varied note,
ποικιλόμητις [unavailable]
ποικίλος many-coloured, spotted, pied, dappled,
ποικιλόω embroider,
ποικιλτής broiderer, pattern-weaver,
ποικιλτός variegated, broidered,
πολύχροια variety of colour,
πυρράζω to be fiery red
πυρρός flame-coloured, yellowish-red
πυρσαίνω tinge with red
σανδαράκινος of orange colour
σανδαρακουργεῖον a pit whence
σάνδυξ a bright red colour
σπόδιον [unavailable]
σπόδιος ash-coloured, grey
σύγχροος of like colour
σύγχρους of like colour
τεφράς ash-coloured
τεφρός ash-coloured
τριχρώματος three-coloured,
ὑακινθινοβαφής dyed hyacinth-colour,
ὑποπερκάζω begin to assume a dark colour, begin to turn,
χαλκοειδής like copper, copper-coloured,
χροάζω colour,
-------------------------------
κόκκινος scarlet
κοκκοβαφής scarlet-dyed, scarlet
κοκκοβαφία scarlet raiment
ὑσγινοβαφής dipped
ὕπωχρος pale yellow,
φοινικοβαφής [unavailable]
φοινικοβαφής [unavailable]
φοινικόπεδος with red bottom
φοινικόροδος red with roses,
φοινικοτρόφος bearing palms,
φοινικόφυτος grown with palms,
φοινικτός dyed purple,
χρυσοβαφής gold-embroidered,
ἀβαφής [unavailable]
ἀνθοβαφής bright-coloured,
ἀνθοβάφος dyerin bright colours,
--------------------------
κουράς painting on a ceiling
ὀστρειογραφής purple-painted
ὄστρειον [unavailable]
ὄστρεον oyster
σκηνογραφία scene-painting
σκηνογράφος a scene-painter.
σκηνόγραφος scene-painter
σκιαγραφέω paint with the shadows
σκιαγραφία painting with the shadows
στιβίζομαι paint one's
στίγμα tattoo-mark
στιγματίας one who bears tattoo-marks
στιγματίης one who bears tattoo-marks, a branded culprit, runaway slave
στιγμή spot
στιγμιαῖος on bigger than a point
στίζω tattoo
στίκτης tattooer
στικτός pricked, tattooed
φιλογραφέω love painting,
ψιμυθίζω paint with white lead,
ψιμύθιον white lead,
ψιμυθιόω paint with white lead,
ἀναζωγραφέω paint completely, delineate,
ἀναζωγράφησις [unavailable]
γραπτός painted
γραφεύς painter
διαζωγραφέω paint in divers colours,
ἔγκαυμα mark burnt in, sore from burning
ἔγκαυσις encaustic painting,
ζωγραφεῖον painter's studio
ζωγραφέω paint from life, paint
ζωγράφημα a picture
ζωγραφία art of painting
ζωγραφικός skilled in painting
ζωγράφος one who paints from life
ζώγραφος one who paints from life
ζῴδιον small figure, painted
ἠθόλογος painting character
κουράς painting on a ceiling
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

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