Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Other Greek writings of the New Testament era, including papyri and inscriptions
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Stephen Hughes
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Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 23rd, 2015, 9:12 am

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe is a much easier work to read than either of the major texts that I have started reading publicly here. I guess that a great number of people would be having difficulty with the Attic, so here is a popular text from the Hellenistic era in Koine Greek. This is text, which I am pitching at a New Testament Greek reading audience with Greek still in the early stages of mastery.

I am interested to know if anyone is interested to read it.

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 1 (first part) - text and helps
Longus, [i]Daphnis & Chloe[/i], 1.16.1 (first part) wrote:‘Ἐγώ, παρθένε, μείζων εἰμὶ Δάφνιδος, κἀγὼ μὲν βουκόλος, ὁ δ̓ αἰπόλος: τοσοῦτον κρείττων ὅσον αἰγῶν βόες:
Helps / walk-through:
  • παρθένε - this form is a vocative. It is feminine, the dictionary form being παρθένος, ἡ. It is a term used to address a young (unmarried) lady, without necessarily knowing the state of her maidenhood.
  • μείζων is the comparative form of μέγας, "great", so it means "greater". The word for "greatest" (if you are interested) is μέγιστος. The thing about comparatives is that they can be followed by a genitive of the thing to which they are compared. In English we say "greater than", while in Greek, we say "greater of", those are different ways that different languages express comparison. Cf. John 14:28 ὁ πατήρ μείζων μού ἐστιν "The Father is greater than me".
  • Δάφνιδος is the genitive form of a man's name Δάφνις "Daphnis"
  • μέν ... δ̓ (=δέ) ... is a way of connecting two similar things together - one common thing that we do when we put two things together is to compare them.
  • βουκόλος is a cowherd
  • αἰπόλος is a goatherd
  • Look at κρείττων, it means better and it is nominative singular - it is referring to the speaker - make a note of that first "I am greater". Now the obvious question is, "Who is he greater than?" Well, the same fellow as before Δάφνις "Daphnis". So in effect, κρείττων = κρείττων εἰμὶ Δάφνιδος "I am better than Daphnis". Remember that the genitive is regularly used with comparatives.
  • The next question is "How much better is he?". That is expressed by the τοσοῦτον, "by this much". That is straightforward, but meaningless. What it needs to have is a measure of how much the this much is being asserted to be. ὅσον "which much" is the thing that gives the τοσοῦτον meaning. But even that needs something, "How much?" What follows it - αἰγῶν
  • βόες - gives us the answer. Lets look at that...
  • βόες "cows" is nominative, while αἰγῶν is genitive. The dictionary form of the words would be βοῦς "cow", "ox" (that is an irregular third declension noun) and αἴξ "goat" (that is a regular third declension noun). There is a comparison here. He is saying that cows are better than goats - βόες αἰγῶν looks like "Cows of goats", but by knowing the grammar of comparatives, we can say it is "cows .... than goats". What would you guess the "..." would be? I guess it would "more expensive" (τιμιώτερος) or just plain better (κρείττων). He doesn't feel the need to write it out, but if we were to spell it out, it would be βόες κρείττονές εἰσιν αἰγῶν "Cows are better than goats". That is a simple enough statement, right? Now together with the ὅσον (an adverb) "which much" it gives the adverb an amount, "by the amount that cows are better than goats".
  • Putting that together, τοσοῦτον ... ὅσον αἰγῶν βόες by as much as cows are better than goats, or even more τοσοῦτον κρείττων ὅσον αἰγῶν βόες "I am better (than him) by as much as cows (are better) than goats".
Is anyone interested in a text of this level handled at this level?
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 23rd, 2015, 11:26 pm

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 1 (second part and the very first words of section 2) - text and helps
Dorcus' comparison of himself and Daphnis continues - he hopes by doing so to try turn turn her simple heart from Daphnis to himself and to so obtain (steal) a kiss.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 1 (second part and the very first two words of section 2) - text and helps wrote:καὶ λευκός εἰμι ὡς γάλα, καὶ πυρρὸς ὡς θέρος μέλλον ἀμᾶσθαι, καὶ ἔθρεψε μήτηρ, [p. 251] [2] οὐ θηρίον.
Helps / walk-through:
  • καὶ λευκός εἰμι ὡς γάλα - λευκός is an adjective "white" and not being content to just use the adjective, he uses ὡς "as" to tell is how white his skin is.
  • γάλα "milk" (either of man or beast). [For those with quick logical minds that realise that the first milk (after the birth of a baby or the young of animals - colostrum) is not white, but a fuller colour - we could add that the Greek word for that rich nutritious"milk" is not γάλα, but rather πυός "colostrum".]
  • πυρρὸς is a rich "firey red" colour. Other words describing red are κόκκινος "scarlet" and φοινικοῦς "puple-red".
    θέρος here means harvest, and it is a neuter word - τὸ θέρος "the harvest".
  • μέλλον is a participle from the word μέλλειν "to be about to". The form it is in is a participle, and in this case, the participle is being used as an adjective - adding some description or definition to the word θέρος "harvest" --- putting them together, θέρος μέλλον means the "harvest, which is about to ...". μέλλειν "to be about to" can be followed by an infinitive to describe what is about to happen. In this case, the infinitive ἀμᾶσθαι "to be mown" "to be cut with the sickle (δρέπανον)" (as would have been done in those days).
  • πυρρὸς ὡς θέρος μέλλον ἀμᾶσθαι - let's put those together, "(I am) fiery-red as the harvest about to be mown"
  • The verb τρέφειν "to feed" / "to nourish" is one with an aorist that is at first glance quite different to the present - θρέψαι. There are explanations for the differences, but lets just learn to recite the differences now - τρέφει "(s)he is feeding" vs. ἔθρεψε "(s)he fed". It is a verb that takes an object (transitive verb), so we need to supply one - "me" με.
  • ἔθρεψε μήτηρ - ἔθρεψε (με) μήτηρ is an interesting phrase in that it says "a mother fed me". Greek doesn't often use a word for "a" (where we would use that in English).
  • οὐ θηρίον - θηρίον is nominative, and it goes with the idea of the verb ἔθρεψε (με). Overall he says he was nursed by a human mother not a wild goat. He is talking himself up, and talking Daphnis down.
I would be obliged it anyone could let me know the difficulties they still have with this after reading the Greek with it.
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

cwconrad
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Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by cwconrad » February 24th, 2015, 8:10 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 1 (second part and the very first words of section 2) - text and helps
Dorcus' comparison of himself and Daphnis continues - he hopes by doing so to try turn turn her simple heart from Daphnis to himself and to so obtain (steal) a kiss.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 1 (second part and the very first two words of section 2) - text and helps wrote:καὶ λευκός εἰμι ὡς γάλα, καὶ πυρρὸς ὡς θέρος μέλλον ἀμᾶσθαι, καὶ ἔθρεψε μήτηρ, [p. 251] [2] οὐ θηρίον.
Helps / walk-through:
,,,
[*]The verb τρέφειν "to feed" / "to nourish" is one with an aorist that is at first glance quite different to the present - θρέψαι. There are explanations for the differences, but lets just learn to recite the differences now - τρέφει "(s)he is feeding" vs. ἔθρεψε "(s)he fed". It is a verb that takes an object (transitive verb), so we need to supply one - "me" με.
[*]ἔθρεψε μήτηρ - ἔθρεψε (με) μήτηρ is an interesting phrase in that it says "a mother fed me". Greek doesn't often use a word for "a" (where we would use that in English).
[*]οὐ θηρίον - θηρίον is nominative, and it goes with the idea of the verb ἔθρεψε (με). Overall he says he was nursed by a human mother not a wild goat. He is talking himself up, and talking Daphnis down.[/list]
I would be obliged it anyone could let me know the difficulties they still have with this after reading the Greek with it.
Granted the probability that your analysis is correct, might you clarify why that last clause couldn't be understood, with τρέφειν in the sense "rear, raise up" and θηρίον as a predicate accusative, to mean, " ... and my mother brought me up not as a beast"?
0 x
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 24th, 2015, 8:42 am

cwconrad wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 1 (second part and the very first words of section 2) - text and helps
Dorcus' comparison of himself and Daphnis continues - he hopes by doing so to try turn turn her simple heart from Daphnis to himself and to so obtain (steal) a kiss.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 1 (second part and the very first two words of section 2) - text and helps wrote:καὶ λευκός εἰμι ὡς γάλα, καὶ πυρρὸς ὡς θέρος μέλλον ἀμᾶσθαι, καὶ ἔθρεψε μήτηρ, [p. 251] [2] οὐ θηρίον.
Helps / walk-through:
,,,
  • The verb τρέφειν "to feed" / "to nourish" is one with an aorist that is at first glance quite different to the present - θρέψαι. There are explanations for the differences, but lets just learn to recite the differences now - τρέφει "(s)he is feeding" vs. ἔθρεψε "(s)he fed". It is a verb that takes an object (transitive verb), so we need to supply one - "me" με.
  • ἔθρεψε μήτηρ - ἔθρεψε (με) μήτηρ is an interesting phrase in that it says "a mother fed me". Greek doesn't often use a word for "a" (where we would use that in English).
  • οὐ θηρίον - θηρίον is nominative, and it goes with the idea of the verb ἔθρεψε (με). Overall he says he was nursed by a human mother not a wild goat. He is talking himself up, and talking Daphnis down.
I would be obliged it anyone could let me know the difficulties they still have with this after reading the Greek with it.
Granted the probability that your analysis is correct, might you clarify why that last clause couldn't be understood, with τρέφειν in the sense "rear, raise up" and θηρίον as a predicate accusative, to mean, " ... and my mother brought me up not as a beast"?
Carl!?!? Well, I must say, you are the last person that I would have expected to be reading this chapter with me! There are only 5 quite sort sections in this chapter, and the Greek is Gospel-of-John-level simple, more-or-less, but welcome none-the-less...

My answer to your question is in section 2 (what will be the fourth section that we read).
The fourth section that we will read wrote:Εἰ δ̓, ὡς λέγουσι, καὶ αἲξ αὐτῷ γάλα δέδωκεν "a goat gave him milk", οὐδὲν ἐρίφου διαφέρει "in no wise is he better than a kid".
I am assuming that the two - the fourth part we will read and the one you are asking about - have equivalent meaning. The difficulty with taking it in that sense is that θηρίον is properly used of wild animals, not domestic ones such as goats. I have opted for the broader reading - if I read it in the way that you are mooting, it would mean a human mother let him run feral ἄγριος, and therefore he is a beast. Taking that Dorcus is actually insinuating that a goat suckled him and that consequently he is a wild beast seems to me to insult his mother too. In many cultures reproaches directed against people's mothers are stronger than against themselves.
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

cwconrad
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Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by cwconrad » February 24th, 2015, 9:15 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:color=#BF0040]Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 1 (second part and the very first words of section 2) - text and helps[/color]
Dorcus' comparison of himself and Daphnis continues - he hopes by doing so to try turn turn her simple heart from Daphnis to himself and to so obtain (steal) a kiss.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 1 (second part and the very first two words of section 2) - text and helps wrote:καὶ λευκός εἰμι ὡς γάλα, καὶ πυρρὸς ὡς θέρος μέλλον ἀμᾶσθαι, καὶ ἔθρεψε μήτηρ, [p. 251] [2] οὐ θηρίον.
Helps / walk-through:
,,,
  • The verb τρέφειν "to feed" / "to nourish" is one with an aorist that is at first glance quite different to the present - θρέψαι. There are explanations for the differences, but lets just learn to recite the differences now - τρέφει "(s)he is feeding" vs. ἔθρεψε "(s)he fed". It is a verb that takes an object (transitive verb), so we need to supply one - "me" με.
  • ἔθρεψε μήτηρ - ἔθρεψε (με) μήτηρ is an interesting phrase in that it says "a mother fed me". Greek doesn't often use a word for "a" (where we would use that in English).
  • οὐ θηρίον - θηρίον is nominative, and it goes with the idea of the verb ἔθρεψε (με). Overall he says he was nursed by a human mother not a wild goat. He is talking himself up, and talking Daphnis down.
I would be obliged it anyone could let me know the difficulties they still have with this after reading the Greek with it.
cwconrad wrote:[Granted the probability that your analysis is correct, might you clarify why that last clause couldn't be understood, with τρέφειν in the sense "rear, raise up" and θηρίον as a predicate accusative, to mean, " ... and my mother brought me up not as a beast"?
Stephen Hughes wrote:Carl!?!? Well, I must say, you are the last person that I would have expected to be reading this chapter with me! There are only 5 quite sort sections in this chapter, and the Greek is Gospel-of-John-level simple, more-or-less, but welcome none-the-less...

My answer to your question is in section 2 (what will be the fourth section that we read).
The fourth section that we will read wrote:Εἰ δ̓, ὡς λέγουσι, καὶ αἲξ αὐτῷ γάλα δέδωκεν "a goat gave him milk", οὐδὲν ἐρίφου διαφέρει "in no wise is he better than a kid".
I am assuming that the two - the fourth part we will read and the one you are asking about - have equivalent meaning. The difficulty with taking it in that sense is that θηρίον is properly used of wild animals, not domestic ones such as goats. I have opted for the broader reading - if I read it in the way that you are mooting, it would mean a human mother let him run feral ἄγριος, and therefore he is a beast. Taking that Dorcus is actually insinuating that a goat suckled him and that consequently he is a wild beast seems to me to insult his mother too. In many cultures reproaches directed against people's mothers are stronger than against themselves.
I think you understood what I wrote to mean the opposite of what I did mean; rephrasing: "my mother did not bring me up as a wild beast" or "my mother raised me up to be a beast -- not!"

I thought the guy's name was Dorcon (Δόρκων). Makes me wonder: is that the etymology of our word "dork"? Probably not. But the whole business of casting aspersions on another guy's mother (and responding to implicit aspersions) is undoubtedly a practice going way, way back. One wonders whether the whole tradition of satyrs and nymphs in pastoral poetry started out with "Your momma's a feral goat!" "Hey, I'm no goat! I'm a mensch! -- the soul of gentility!" (just a thought). In any case, the conventions of ancient pastoral poetry (this isn't a poem, but those conventions seem to be in play) make it one of the most artificial genres ever.
0 x
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
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Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 24th, 2015, 10:14 am

cwconrad wrote:I think you understood what I wrote to mean the opposite of what I did mean; rephrasing: "my mother did not bring me up as a wild beast" or "my mother raised me up to be a beast -- not!"
I think that your suggestion is a viable divergence from the most probable - on par with Lake Moeris (Μοῖρις = الفيوم (el-Fayyūm) in ancient times). It is good that you brought that point up.
cwconrad wrote:I thought the guy's name was Dorcon (Δόρκων). Makes me wonder: is that the etymology of our word "dork"? Probably not.
I'm a loser with names, especially those that it would be better that I should remember. Sorry about that.

I think the etymology of "dork" is ὁ πέος τῆς φαλαίνης. [You may be familiar with the classical form φάλλαινα, rather than the Helenistic φάλαινα.]
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 25th, 2015, 2:36 am

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 2 (first part) - text and helps
Dorco continues to describe Daphnis to Chloe in unfavourable terms. He not only uses adjectives, but also word associations to paint a picture of him, and sway her mind from Daphnis and ultimately to himself.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 2 (first part) wrote:Οὗτος δέ ἐστι σμικρὸς καὶ ἀγένειος ὡς γυνή, καὶ μέλας ὡς λύκος:
Helps / walk-through:
  • Οὗτος "he", "that fellow" - the pronoun is referring to Daphnis as the guy they are talking about, i.e. not here and hence distant.
  • σμικρὸς "small" - the form of this that you will be familiar with is μικρὸς "small" without the sigma. The word for short (stunted in growth) specifically is κολοβός "dwarf", "short", but Dorco is not saying he is that.
  • ἀγένειος "beardless", i.e. just a youth. cf. γένειον "beard", "chin"
  • ὡς γυνή - rather than just using the adjective by itself, he further defines / explain the meaning that he expresses by the adjective by including ὡς γυνή "like a woman". ἀγένειος ὡς γυνή "beardless like a woman".
  • μέλας "black", "dark" is a third declension adjective, which will take a bit of getting used to. It is similar to other third declension nouns such as ὁ πελεκάν (gen. πελεκᾶνος) "pelican (a type of bird)" save that the nominative form is in -άν not -ας.
  • ὡς λύκος - once again, just the adjective is not felt to be enough, so another words is added to help define the meaning and associations that he wants to get across to Chloe. λύκος "wolf" is a bad dangerous animal, feared and hated, from which people usually keep a distance.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 25th, 2015, 5:18 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 2 (second part) - text and helps
Dorco goes on to tell Chloe about Daphnis' financial state.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 2 (second part) wrote:νέμει δὲ τράγους, ὀδωδὼς ἀπ̓ αὐτῶν δεινόν, καὶ ἔστι πένης ὡς μηδὲ κύνα τρέφειν.
Helps / walk-through:
  • νέμει ... τράγους - "he pastures / tends goats". νέμειν is the verb used to look after cattle and smaller animals (sheep and goats) that require pasture. It is different from the τρέφειν which is used to feed by giving food (rather than leading to pasture). If they needed to be herded and fed, that could be βόσκειν
  • ὀδωδὼς "stinking" is a participle from ὄδωδα "I stink". ὄδωδα is one of those verbs that is perfect in form and present in meaning. It is like the common verb ἑστηκώς "standing" from ἕστηκα "I am standing".
  • ἀπ̓ αὐτῶν - "from them" i.e. his smell comes from the goats that he tends.
  • ὀδωδὼς ἀπ̓ αὐτῶν δεινόν - there are three parts to this (1) ὀδωδὼς (2) ἀπ̓ αὐτῶν (3) δεινόν - the central part on which the other two rest / balance is in the middle. The ones one outside ὀδωδὼς "stinking" + δεινόν "terribly" go together because of that central section. In English we place that brings two pieces of the sentence together after the two things - like tying a knot after placing them together, but in Greek, the thing that puts the two things together is placed between them, like gum / resin / glue.
  • πένης "poor" is an adjective (the opposite of πλούσιος "rich") and that is how Dorco describes Daphnis.
  • ὡς μηδὲ κύνα τρέφειν - this is one of the ways how to further describe an adjective using a verbal phrase - the verbal phrase in the indicative would be Οὗτος δέ κύνα οὐ τρέφει"And he doesn't keep a dog." The infinitive makes the phrase nominal. "like some someone who can't even keep a dog". The closest w come to this turn of phrase in the New Testament is perhaps in Mark 2:2 Καὶ εὐθέως συνήχθησαν πολλοί, ὥστε μηκέτι χωρεῖν μηδὲ "not even" τὰ πρὸς τὴν θύραν· καὶ ἐλάλει αὐτοῖς τὸν λόγον. Which to me at least has a very colloquial feel about it. If you would like to research this further on your own, the technical term for this ὡς (=ὥστε) is consecutive. Greek doesn't need anything before the adjective to make this kind of construction, but English usually has a "so" in front of the adjective "he is so poor that he doesn't keep even a dog".
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Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 25th, 2015, 7:32 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 2 (third part) - text and helps
I had planned this to be the fourth section, but I split the previous one into two to divide Dorko's description of Daphnis' appearance from that of his actions. In this fifth section we get to the rumours about Daphnis' early life.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 2 (third part) wrote:Εἰ δ̓, ὡς λέγουσι, καὶ αἲξ αὐτῷ γάλα δέδωκεν, οὐδὲν ἐρίφου διαφέρει.’
Helps / walk-through:
  • Εἰ "If" - this next little bit is a simple "if ... then ... " construction. The two parts are
    • If Εἰ δ̓, ὡς λέγουσι, καὶ αἲξ αὐτῷ γάλα δέδωκεν,
    • then οὐδὲν ἐρίφου διαφέρει.
  • ὡς λέγουσι - "as they say" - the question is "Who?". Nameless people, shameless people, those who want to sound like they are speaking for all the people, rumour-mongers, the general populous. Look at Matthew 11:18 Ἦλθεν γὰρ Ἰωάννης "For John came" μήτε ἐσθίων μήτε πίνων "neither eating nor drinking", καὶ λέγουσιν, Δαιμόνιον ἔχει. "They say he has a demon". (The next verse Matthew 11:19 is the other example of this in the New Testament). Dorco put his words in the mouth of unknown others, because he doesn't want to sound like he himself is telling a rumour.
  • Εἰ δ[έ] ... καὶ αἲξ αὐτῷ γάλα δέδωκεν - this is the protasis - the conditional part in a conditional sentence, the "if ..." part.
  • αἲξ "goat" - here it would be ἡ αἲξ "Nanny goat", rather than ὁ αἲξ "Billy goat", for reasons that will be very clear in the next few words. αἲξ doesn't really follow a regular pattern as other nouns do - in Greek that is called ιδιόκλιτος - that may be because it was such an everyday common word that it just got used as it was without regularisation to the patterns. Here it is nominative singular.
  • αὐτῷ γάλα δέδωκεν "gave him milk" - γάλα "milk" is accusative, and αὐτῷ "to him" is dative. The verb δεδωκεναι​ "to have given" (and indeed all the other forms of the verb διδόναι / δοῦναι "to give") regularly go with an accusative of the thing given, and a dative of the person to whom that thing is given. The subject of the verb - the person doing it - is αἲξ "a (nanny) goat".
  • οὐδὲν ἐρίφου διαφέρει - this is the apodosis - the consequent clause of the conditional sentence, the "(then)" part.
  • οὐδὲν ἐρίφου διαφέρει - there are three parts to this phrase - (1) οὐδὲν "not at all" (2) ἐρίφου "than a kid (young of the goat)" (3) διαφέρει "he is better than" / "he is different from" - the middle part is what keeps the two outside parts together. In English idiom, we tend to put what holds two things together after them, rather than in the middle. "In no way is he better than a kid". You may remember αἰγῶν βόες from the first little part that we read. αἰγῶν was in the genitive there and had the same "than" sense from its genitive as this ἐρίφου has here. Such a type of genitive is called a genitive of comparison, if you would like to read further about it on your own. Another thing you may like to become familiar with are the terms (and concepts of) protasis and apodosis (πρότασις and ἀπόδοσις) in conditional sentences (ὑποθετικαὶ προτάσεις)
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 25th, 2015, 8:16 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:
cwconrad wrote:I thought the guy's name was Dorcon (Δόρκων). Makes me wonder: is that the etymology of our word "dork"? Probably not.
I think the etymology of "dork" is ὁ πέος τῆς φαλαίνης. [You may be familiar with the classical form φάλλαινα, rather than the Helenistic φάλαινα.]
Two points to correct:
  1. I had heard in a TV special some years ago one Hjörtur Gísli Sigurðsson from The Icelandic Phallological Museum in Reykjavik refer to the τὸ τῆς φαλαίνης πέος as a "dork", but it has been pointed out to me in PMs that dork appears to not be a scientifically recognised term for the member in question. Interested or concerned persons could feel welcome to look into the matter further in a more appropriate thread of its own.
  2. In addition to that error, the gender that I used for πέος was wrong too. It is actually neuter, i.e. τὸ τῆς φαλαίνης πέος. In regard to the two words that seem to be typically used - πέος (everyday word), φαλλός (formal word) - one is neuter and the other masculine.
I'm sorry for any consternation caused by those errors.
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

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