Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Other Greek writings of the New Testament era, including papyri and inscriptions
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cwconrad
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Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by cwconrad » February 25th, 2015, 10:05 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:I'm sorry for any consternation caused by those errors.
Well, the corrections may just possibly cause more consternation than did the errors. :D
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Stephen Hughes
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Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 25th, 2015, 4:53 pm

cwconrad wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:I'm sorry for any consternation caused by those errors.
Well, the corrections may just possibly cause more consternation than did the errors. :D
This unfortunate line of cross-chat is most oddly matched to the reading of the text.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 25th, 2015, 5:25 pm

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 3 (first part) - text and helps
A very short summation of what Dorco has said.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 3 (first part) wrote:Ταῦτα καὶ τοιαῦτα ὁ Δόρκων:
Helps / walk-through:
  • Ταῦτα"These things (which have just been mentioned)" - we need to supply a verb of speaking to this - perhaps εἶπεν "he said"
  • τοιαῦτα "such things as these (like the ones already mentioned)" - perhaps there were other claims that Dorco made about Daphnis that were not included in the story as it was told to us, but if there were, they would be similar / along the same lines as the ones already made.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 28th, 2015, 9:06 pm

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 3 (second part) - text and helps
Now Daphnis has the chance to reply to what Dorco has said.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 3 (second part) wrote:καὶ μετὰ ταῦτα ὁ Δάφνις ‘Ἐμὲ αἲξ ἀνέθρεψεν ὥσπερ τὸν Δία:
Helps / walk-through:
  • μετὰ ταῦτα ὁ Δάφνις "After these things Daphnis" - we need to supply a verb of speaking to this - perhaps εἶπεν "he said"
  • Ἐμὲ αἲξ ἀνέθρεψεν "a (nanny) goat raised me (nourished me)" - ἀνατρέφειν is the dictionary form of this word - Acts 7:20 says Μωσῆς ... ἀνετράφη μῆνας τρεῖς ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ τοῦ πατρός. "Moses was nourished in his father's house for 3 months".
  • ὥσπερ τὸν Δία: - "like (a goat raised) Jupiter". The τὸν Δία is an accusative like Ἐμὲ in the previous phrase, so we can take the previous phrase Ἐμὲ αἲξ ἀνέθρεψεν remove the Ἐμὲ and add the τὸν Δία, giving αἲξ τὸν Δία ἀνέθρεψεν.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 28th, 2015, 9:27 pm

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 3 (second part) - text and helps
Daphnis compares his goats to Dorco's cattle.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 3 (second part) wrote:νέμω δὲ τράγους τῶν τούτου βοῶν μείζονας:
Helps / walk-through:
  • νέμω "I pasture"
  • τράγους "goats"
  • τῶν τούτου βοῶν - "than the goats of this fellow". This genitive is a genitive of comparison, and it goes with the following word μείζονας, so let's consider that first.
  • μείζονας "greater", "taller", "bigger", "more impressive" - this word agrees with τράγους in number and case (accusative plural) and it has the range of meanings that I've listed. What it can not mean is "more" which is expressed by πλείονας, the comparative of πολύς "much".
  • τράγους τῶν τούτου βοῶν μείζονας "bigger / more impressive goats than the cattle of this guy". If he wanted to say "I tend more goats than this guy's cattle", he would have said, τράγους τῶν τούτου βοῶν πλείονας, but of course he didn't.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 28th, 2015, 10:22 pm

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 3 (third part) - text and helps
Daphnis compares his goats to Dorco's cattle.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 3 (third part) wrote:ὄζω δὲ οὐδὲν ἀπ̓ αὐτῶν, ὅτι μηδὲ ὁ Πάν, καίτοιγε ὢν τὸ πλέον τράγος.
Helps / walk-through:
  • ὄζω "I smell (give off a smell)"
  • οὐδὲν "not in the least"
  • ἀπ̓ αὐτῶν "from them", in fact just the genitive would be enough for this, but having the ἀπό in front of it stresses the fact that the smell would not be from him himself, but from the goats.
  • μηδὲ - "neither (did)".
  • ὁ Πάν "Pan", one of the minor Greek dieties, pictures as being somewhat like a goat. The genitive of Πάν is Πανός.
  • καίτοιγε "and indeed"
  • ὢν "being" this agrees in number and case with ὁ Πάν "Pan" (singular and nominative)
  • τὸ πλέον τράγος "a higher degree of a goat", "more than a goat"
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 28th, 2015, 11:05 pm

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 4 (first part) - text and helps
Daphnis talks about his satisfaction with the simple rustic life that he leads.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 4 (first part) wrote: Ἀρκεῖ δέ μοι τυρὸς καὶ ἄρτος ὀβελίας καὶ οἶνος λευκός, ὅσα ἀγροίκων πλουσίων κτήματα.
Helps / walk-through:
  • Ἀρκεῖ ... μοι "... is enough for me", "I'm quite happy with ...".
  • τυρὸς "cheese".
  • ἄρτος ὀβελίας "bread roasted on a spit (skewer)" i.e. not in an oven at home. The Greek word for a spit is ὀβελός.
  • οἶνος λευκός - "white wine". The word for "red wine" if it needed to be spelt out would be οἶνος ἐρυθρός (not one of the other synonyms of "red").
  • ὅσα "all the ... which".
  • ἀγροίκων "rustic", "boorish" (if it is in a bad sense).
  • πλουσίων "of rich people". ἀγροίκων πλουσίων "of the rustic rich".
  • κτήματα "possessions" ὅσα ... κτήματα "all (as as) the possessions".
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » February 28th, 2015, 11:31 pm

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 4 (second part) - text and helps
Daphnis begins to rebut the slurs against his appearance.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 4 (second part) wrote:Ἀγένειός εἰμι, καὶ γὰρ : μέλας, καὶ γὰρ ὁ ὑάκινθος:
Helps / walk-through:
  • Ἀγένειός εἰμι "I am beardless".
  • γὰρ "as".
  • ὁ Διόνυσος - "Dionysius (Dennis)" - a youthful Greek god of wine.
  • καὶ ... ὁ Διόνυσος - "Dionysius also was".
  • μέλας (εἰμι) - "(I am) black".
  • ὑάκινθος "hyacinth" - referring here to the flower, not the stone.
  • καὶ ... ὁ ὑάκινθος - "the hyacinth also is".
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3332
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » March 1st, 2015, 12:28 am

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 4 (final part) - text and helps
Daphnis brings attention to the good associations with his appearance.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 4 (final part) wrote:ἀλλὰ κρείττων καὶ ὁ Διόνυσος Σατύρων καὶ ὁ ὑάκινθος κρίνων.
Helps / walk-through:
  • ἀλλὰ "yet" - marking a transition from one thought to another.
  • κρείττων (+gen.) "better".
  • Σατύρων "than satyres" - I type of hairy forest creature.
  • ὁ ὑάκινθος - "hyacinth" - a dark coloured flower
  • κρίνων - "than lillies". - this is a genitive of comparison and what is is compared to is the understood / second use of κρείττων "better"
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3332
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Let's read - Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Chapter 16

Post by Stephen Hughes » March 1st, 2015, 12:38 am

Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 5 (first part) - text and helps
Daphnis takes the opportunity to comment and make some negative associations with Dorco's appearance.
Longus, Daphnis & Chloe, Book 1, Chapter 16, section 5 (first part) wrote: Οὗτος δὲ καὶ πυρρὸς ὡς ἀλώπηξ καὶ προγένειος ὡς τράγος καὶ λευκὸς ὡς ἐξ ἄστεος γυνή:
Helps / walk-through:
  • καὶ ... καὶ ... "both ... and ..." - this construction brings these two ideas closer together
  • πυρρὸς "red" - an adjective.
  • ὡς ἀλώπηξ "as a fox" - this adds extra definition and an association to the adjective.
  • προγένειος - "with a protruding beard" - an adjective.
  • τράγος - "billy goat".
  • λευκὸς - "white" - an adjective.
  • γυνὴ ἐξ ἄστεος - "a woman from the city (the urban area, not the whole district of the πόλις "city")". The nominative form is ἄστυ.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

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