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Linking the Phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι With the Words in the Context

Posted: March 29th, 2018, 8:03 am
by Bernd Strauss
ἐντυχὼν οὖν τοῖς γράμμασι τοῦ Σίλα καὶ διακοσίους ἀναλαβὼν ἄνδρας δι᾿ ὅλης τῆς νυκτὸς τὴν πορείαν ἐποιούμην, προπέμψας ἄγγελον τὸν τὴν ἐμὴν παρουσίαν τοῖς ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι σημανοῦντα.

Is the phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι grammatically linked with the word παρουσίαν or σημανοῦντα? There appears to be some ambiguity.

What would be the most correct rendering of the statement?

Re: Linking the Phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι With the Words in the Context

Posted: March 29th, 2018, 9:17 am
by Wes Wood
προπέμψας ἄγγελον τὸν τὴν ἐμὴν παρουσίαν τοῖς ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι σημανοῦντα.
"Having sent a messenger who will announce my arrival to the ones in Tiberius['s household]."

The location of the phrase "τοῖς ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι" between the article and its participle appears to tether it to the final portion of the sentence. I don't see the ambiguity that you do. How do you understand the passage?

Re: Linking the Phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι With the Words in the Context

Posted: March 29th, 2018, 9:31 am
by Barry Hofstetter
Helpful to have the reference, this is from Josephus' Life, Against Appion 90.

Josephus writes very clearly here:

τὴν ἐμὴν παρουσίαν τοῖς ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι σημανοῦντα

And the positioning of ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι after τοῖς leaves little doubt that it's to be taken with the participle.

Re: Linking the Phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι With the Words in the Context

Posted: March 29th, 2018, 5:09 pm
by Bernd Strauss
Thank you for the clarification. I can see now that the phrase can be properly understood as grammatically linked with σημανοῦντα.

The text is apparently speaking about the report of Josephus’ coming to Tiberias while he was still on his way, rather than to his presence there after his arrival. This seems to be an instance where the word παρουσία is used with the meaning “coming” rather than “presence.” I am currently looking for such usages of the word in ancient Greek writings.

Re: Linking the Phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι With the Words in the Context

Posted: March 29th, 2018, 5:20 pm
by Wes Wood
Bernd Strauss wrote:
March 29th, 2018, 5:09 pm
Thank you for the clarification. I can see now that the phrase can be properly understood as grammatically linked with σημανοῦντα.

The text is apparently speaking about the report of Josephus’ coming to Tiberias while he was still on his way, rather than to his presence there after his arrival. This seems to be an instance where the word παρουσία is used with the meaning “coming” rather than “presence.” I am currently looking for such usages of the word in ancient Greek writings.
You may already be able to access these conveniently, but if not it might help.

Matt. 24:3 Καθημένου δὲ αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ τοῦ ὄρους τῶν ἐλαιῶν προσῆλθον αὐτῷ οἱ μαθηταὶ κατ᾿ ἰδίαν λέγοντες· εἰπὲ ἡμῖν, πότε ταῦτα ἔσται καὶ τί τὸ σημεῖον τῆς σῆς παρουσίας καὶ συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος;

Matt. 24:27 ὥσπερ γὰρ ἡ ἀστραπὴ ἐξέρχεται ἀπὸ ἀνατολῶν καὶ φαίνεται ἕως δυσμῶν, οὕτως ἔσται ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου·

Matt. 24:37 Ὥσπερ γὰρ αἱ ἡμέραι τοῦ Νῶε, οὕτως ἔσται ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.

Matt. 24:39 καὶ οὐκ ἔγνωσαν ἕως ἦλθεν ὁ κατακλυσμὸς καὶ ἦρεν ἅπαντας, οὕτως ἔσται [καὶ] ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.    

1Cor. 15:23 Ἕκαστος δὲ ἐν τῷ ἰδίῳ τάγματι· ἀπαρχὴ Χριστός, ἔπειτα οἱ τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ αὐτοῦ,

1Cor. 16:17 χαίρω δὲ ἐπὶ τῇ παρουσίᾳ Στεφανᾶ καὶ Φορτουνάτου καὶ Ἀχαϊκοῦ, ὅτι τὸ ὑμέτερον ὑστέρημα οὗτοι ἀνεπλήρωσαν·

2Cor. 7:6 ἀλλ᾿ ὁ παρακαλῶν τοὺς ταπεινοὺς παρεκάλεσεν ἡμᾶς ὁ θεὸς ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ Τίτου,
2Cor. 7:7 οὐ μόνον δὲ ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ αὐτοῦ ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐν τῇ παρακλήσει ᾗ παρεκλήθη ἐφ᾿ ὑμῖν, ἀναγγέλλων ἡμῖν τὴν ὑμῶν ἐπιπόθησιν, τὸν ὑμῶν ὀδυρμόν, τὸν ὑμῶν ζῆλον ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ ὥστε με μᾶλλον χαρῆναι.   
 
2Cor. 10:10 ὅτι αἱ ἐπιστολαὶ μέν, φησίν, βαρεῖαι καὶ ἰσχυραί, ἡ δὲ παρουσία τοῦ σώματος ἀσθενὴς καὶ ὁ λόγος ἐξουθενημένος.

Phil. 1:26 ἵνα τὸ καύχημα ὑμῶν περισσεύῃ ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἐν ἐμοὶ διὰ τῆς ἐμῆς παρουσίας πάλιν πρὸς ὑμᾶς.

Phil. 2:12 Ὥστε, ἀγαπητοί μου, καθὼς πάντοτε ὑπηκούσατε, μὴ ὡς ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ μου μόνον ἀλλὰ νῦν πολλῷ μᾶλλον ἐν τῇ ἀπουσίᾳ μου, μετὰ φόβου καὶ τρόμου τὴν ἑαυτῶν σωτηρίαν κατεργάζεσθε·

1Th. 2:19 τίς γὰρ ἡμῶν ἐλπὶς ἢ χαρὰ ἢ στέφανος καυχήσεως _ ἢ οὐχὶ καὶ ὑμεῖς _ ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ ἐν τῇ αὐτοῦ παρουσίᾳ;

1Th. 3:13 εἰς τὸ στηρίξαι ὑμῶν τὰς καρδίας ἀμέμπτους ἐν ἁγιωσύνῃ ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ πατρὸς ἡμῶν ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ μετὰ πάντων τῶν ἁγίων αὐτοῦ [, ἀμήν].
 
1Th. 4:15 Τοῦτο γὰρ ὑμῖν λέγομεν ἐν λόγῳ κυρίου, ὅτι ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι εἰς τὴν παρουσίαν τοῦ κυρίου οὐ μὴ φθάσωμεν τοὺς κοιμηθέντας·

1Th. 5:23 Αὐτὸς δὲ ὁ θεὸς τῆς εἰρήνης ἁγιάσαι ὑμᾶς ὁλοτελεῖς, καὶ ὁλόκληρον ὑμῶν τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ ἡ ψυχὴ καὶ τὸ σῶμα ἀμέμπτως ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τηρηθείη.

2Th. 2:1 Ἐρωτῶμεν δὲ ὑμᾶς, ἀδελφοί, ὑπὲρ τῆς παρουσίας τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ ἡμῶν ἐπισυναγωγῆς ἐπ᾿ αὐτὸν

2Th. 2:8 καὶ τότε ἀποκαλυφθήσεται ὁ ἄνομος, ὃν ὁ κύριος [Ἰησοῦς] ἀνελεῖ τῷ πνεύματι τοῦ στόματος αὐτοῦ καὶ καταργήσει τῇ ἐπιφανείᾳ τῆς παρουσίας αὐτοῦ,
2Th. 2:9 οὗ ἐστιν ἡ παρουσία κατ᾿ ἐνέργειαν τοῦ σατανᾶ ἐν πάσῃ δυνάμει καὶ σημείοις καὶ τέρασιν ψεύδους

James 5:7 Μακροθυμήσατε οὖν, ἀδελφοί, ἕως τῆς παρουσίας τοῦ κυρίου. ἰδοὺ ὁ γεωργὸς ἐκδέχεται τὸν τίμιον καρπὸν τῆς γῆς μακροθυμῶν ἐπ᾿ αὐτῷ, ἕως λάβῃ πρόϊμον καὶ ὄψιμον.
James 5:8 μακροθυμήσατε καὶ ὑμεῖς, στηρίξατε τὰς καρδίας ὑμῶν, ὅτι ἡ παρουσία τοῦ κυρίου ἤγγικεν.

2Pet. 1:16 Οὐ γὰρ σεσοφισμένοις μύθοις ἐξακολουθήσαντες ἐγνωρίσαμεν ὑμῖν τὴν τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ δύναμιν καὶ παρουσίαν ἀλλ᾿ ἐπόπται γενηθέντες τῆς ἐκείνου μεγαλειότητος.

2Pet. 3:4 καὶ λέγοντες· ποῦ ἐστιν ἡ ἐπαγγελία τῆς παρουσίας αὐτοῦ; ἀφ᾿ ἧς γὰρ οἱ πατέρες ἐκοιμήθησαν, πάντα οὕτως διαμένει ἀπ᾿ ἀρχῆς κτίσεως.

2Pet. 3:12 προσδοκῶντας καὶ σπεύδοντας τὴν παρουσίαν τῆς τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμέρας δι᾿ ἣν οὐρανοὶ πυρούμενοι λυθήσονται καὶ στοιχεῖα καυσούμενα τήκεται.

1John 2:28 Καὶ νῦν, τεκνία, μένετε ἐν αὐτῷ, ἵνα ἐὰν φανερωθῇ, σχῶμεν παρρησίαν καὶ μὴ αἰσχυνθῶμεν ἀπ᾿ αὐτοῦ ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ αὐτοῦ.

Re: Linking the Phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι With the Words in the Context

Posted: March 30th, 2018, 6:24 am
by Bernd Strauss
Thank you for the quotations. I had previously looked up all the instances where the word παρουσία appears in the Septuagint and the Christian Greek Scriptures. The context determines what meaning it has in a particular instance.

Re: Linking the Phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι With the Words in the Context

Posted: March 30th, 2018, 7:08 am
by Bernd Strauss
At first, I tough that Τιβεριάδι is a form of the proper name of the city Τιβεριάδος. (In such case, the phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι would mean “in [the city of] Tiberias.”) But H. St. J. Thackeray’s translation renders Τιβεριάδι as “people of Tiberias.” William Whiston’s translation reads the same. Is Τιβεριάδι a form of the proper name of the city Τιβεριάδος, or is it a plural noun meaning “Tiberians”? Is the preposition ἐν in the phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι used with the meaning “in” (if Τιβεριάδι refers to the city) or “among” (if Τιβεριάδι refers to the people of the city)?

Re: Linking the Phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι With the Words in the Context

Posted: March 30th, 2018, 9:40 am
by Barry Hofstetter
Bernd Strauss wrote:
March 30th, 2018, 7:08 am
At first, I tough that Τιβεριάδι is a form of the proper name of the city Τιβεριάδος. (In such case, the phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι would mean “in [the city of] Tiberias.”) But H. St. J. Thackeray’s translation renders Τιβεριάδι as “people of Tiberias.” William Whiston’s translation reads the same. Is Τιβεριάδι a form of the proper name of the city Τιβεριάδος, or is it a plural noun meaning “Tiberians”? Is the preposition ἐν in the phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι used with the meaning “in” (if Τιβεριάδι refers to the city) or “among” (if Τιβεριάδι refers to the people of the city)?
It refers specifically to the city, but the translation "people of Tiberias" comes from τοῖς ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι. The definite article makes the prepositional phrase substantive, and being masculine dative plural, refers to the people in the city. The substantive use of the article is quite common in Greek. BTW, the correct nominative form is Τιβεριάς... (Τιβεριάς, άδος, ἡ).

Re: Linking the Phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι With the Words in the Context

Posted: March 30th, 2018, 9:44 am
by Wes Wood
Bernd Strauss wrote:
March 30th, 2018, 7:08 am
At first, I tough that Τιβεριάδι is a form of the proper name of the city Τιβεριάδος. (In such case, the phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι would mean “in [the city of] Tiberias.”) But H. St. J. Thackeray’s translation renders Τιβεριάδι as “people of Tiberias.” William Whiston’s translation reads the same. Is Τιβεριάδι a form of the proper name of the city Τιβεριάδος, or is it a plural noun meaning “Tiberians”? Is the preposition ἐν in the phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι used with the meaning “in” (if Τιβεριάδι refers to the city) or “among” (if Τιβεριάδι refers to the people of the city)?
In my translation, I assumed that Τιβεριάδι was the genitive of a proper name rather than the name of a city, but the context that Dr Hofstetter provided (thank you) makes it clear that it is a reference to a city. Your first thought is correct. Τιβεριάδι is a dative singular, not a plural. It does not refer to the people. It seems to me that you have overlooked τοῖς and it is the element in the sentence causing your confusion. Τοῖς precedes ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι and this along with the dative phrase means "the ones in Tiberias." Hope this helps.

Re: Linking the Phrase ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι With the Words in the Context

Posted: March 30th, 2018, 9:45 am
by Wes Wood
Sorry for the cross post. I didn't mean to step on any toes.