Lysias' Λόγος ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου

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Jordan Day
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#3 Lysias' Λόγος ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου

Post by Jordan Day » June 15th, 2014, 10:26 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:I'm sure by now, you are beginning to get a first impression of the degree to which there are similarities and differences between this Greek and the Greek in the New Testament.
As difficult as it is, it still seems like the same language. It is mostly the vocabulary I am struggling with (both with usage as well as definitions). Ive noticed that the text I struggle with the most are said to be of "high literary style" and of "the well educated", But to me it still looks like the same Greek that John Chrysostom wrote and of near equal difficulty for me. So I still cant seem to point at anything and say "Ah ha! A Koine author never would have said *that*, thats how I know its Attic and not Koine!"
Lysias wrote:ἤδη τοίνυν, ὦ βουλή, δῆλός ἐστι φθονῶν, ὅτι τοιαύτῃ κεχρημένος συμφορᾷ τούτου βελτίων εἰμὶ πολίτης. καὶ γὰρ οἶμαι δεῖν, ὦ βουλή, τὰ τοῦ σώματος δυστυχήματα τοῖς τῆς ψυχῆς ἐπιτηδεύμασιν ἰᾶσθαι, [καλῶς]. εἰ γὰρ ἐξ ἴσου τῇ συμφορᾷ καὶ τὴν διάνοιαν ἕξω καὶ τὸν ἄλλον βίον διάξω, τί τούτου διοίσω;
Jordan wrote:Now therefore, oh council, he is obvious of envy (clearly jeleous?), because[even?] after having been subjected to such a misfortune I am [still?] a better citizen than this man. And I consider it to be necessary, oh council, the misfortunes of the body along with the needs of the soul to be healed, [well]. For if I were evenly in the situation, and had the [same] mindset and will live the other life, what would I differ from this man?
I had to look up συμφορά in LSJ to try to find a definition that made sense, but it didnt help much. I think this is one of the things holding me back in my understanding. I cant grasp εἰ γὰρ ἐξ ἴσου τῇ συμφορᾷ καὶ τὴν διάνοιαν ἕξω, and I think its because I dont know what he is talking about. I think he is saying something like, " If I were (to an even degree) in this man's unfortunate situation and had his mindset..."
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§6 - Lysias' Λόγος ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου

Post by Stephen Hughes » June 16th, 2014, 3:49 am

Section 6 has fairly straightforward structures, but there are a lot of words which might be unfamiliar.

Now we hear the speaker's account of his life:
Λυσίας, ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου 24.6 wrote: ἐμοὶ γὰρ ὁ μὲν πατὴρ κατέλιπεν οὐδέν, τὴν δὲ μητέρα τελευτήσασαν πέπαυμαι τρέφων τρίτον ἔτος τουτί, παῖδες δέ μοι οὔπω εἰσὶν οἵ με θεραπεύσουσι. τέχνην δὲ κέκτημαι βραχέα δυναμένην ὠφελεῖν, ἣν αὐτὸς μὲν ἤδη χαλεπῶς ἐργάζομαι, τὸν διαδεξόμενον δ᾽ αὐτὴν οὔπω δύναμαι κτήσασθαι. πρόσοδος δέ μοι οὐκ ἔστιν ἄλλη πλὴν ταύτης, ἣν¹ ἂν ἀφέλησθέ με, κινδυνεύσαιμ᾽ ἂν ὑπὸ τῇ δυσχερεστάτῃ γενέσθαι τύχῃ.

¹ἣν Contius: ἧς MSS.
Hints for §6: (You could look at these after working through it yourself)
  • κατέλιπεν - this is used as a technical term "to bequeath something to somebody", the general sense seems to be "to leave something (behind) (when he departed)". Cf. Luke 20:31 Καὶ ὁ τρίτος ἔλαβεν αὐτὴν ὡσαύτως. Ὡσαύτως δὲ καὶ οἱ ἑπτά· οὐ κατέλιπον τέκνα, καὶ ἀπέθανον.
  • παύεσθαι - with a participle.
  • 3 years - This year, last year and the year before.
  • εὐπορία - opposite of ἀπορία. Cf. Acts 19:25 οὓς συναθροίσας (gathering together), καὶ τοὺς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα ἐργάτας, εἶπεν, Ἄνδρες, ἐπίστασθε ὅτι ἐκ ταύτης τῆς ἐργασίας ἡ εὐπορία ἡμῶν ἐστιν.
  • συνεῖναι - The most common meaning in the New Testament for this is "to understand", as in Luke 24:45 Τότε διήνοιξεν αὐτῶν τὸν νοῦν, τοῦ συνιέναι τὰς γραφάς (the object is in the accusative)· but here in Lysias, it means the same as in the one occurrence where it has the "earlier" meaning Luke 8:4 Συνιόντος δὲ ὄχλου πολλοῦ, καὶ τῶν κατὰ πόλιν ἐπιπορευομένων πρὸς αὐτόν, εἶπεν διὰ παραβολῆς,
  • τὴν μέν ... - The μέν leaves us with a hanging feeling right down to the γιγνώσκειν. While correctly described as a participle of emphasis, that is a very broad term.
  • τέχνη - here used in the technical sense of a (workman's) trade, rather than the general sense of "a skill".
  • βραχέα - a little, slightly.
  • ὠφελεῖν - "to be of use / service".
  • χαλεπῶς - with difficulty. In the New Testament, this word has taken on a more intense meaning, with the general meaning shown by δυσκόλως.
  • διαδεξόμενον - διαδοχή is the "other side of the coin" from παράδοσις. Cf. Acts 7:45 Ἣν καὶ εἰσήγαγον διαδεξάμενοι οἱ πατέρες ἡμῶν μετὰ Ἰησοῦ ἐν τῇ κατασχέσει τῶν ἐθνῶν, ὧν ἐξῶσεν ὁ θεὸς ἀπὸ προσώπου τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν, ἕως τῶν ἡμερῶν Δαυίδ· (διαδεξάμενοι - as successors to the covenant) and Acts 24:27 Διετίας δὲ πληρωθείσης (when a full two years had passed), ἔλαβεν διάδοχον ὁ Φῆλιξ Πόρκιον Φῆστον· θέλων τε χάριτας καταθέσθαι τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις ὁ Φῆλιξ κατέλιπεν τὸν Παῦλον δεδεμένον. (διάδοχος - the next one to take over an office). Cf. the "good" sense of παράδοσις in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Ἄρα οὖν, ἀδελφοί, στήκετε, καὶ κρατεῖτε τὰς παραδόσεις ἃς ἐδιδάχθητε, εἴτε διὰ λόγου, εἴτε δι’ ἐπιστολῆς ἡμῶν.
  • αὐτὴν - not a Semitic influence on grammar.
  • πρόσοδος - (ἡ) income (technical word).
  • ἣν / ἧς - "corrected" by an editor so that it agrees with what is needed by the relative clause (v.i. ἀφέλησθέ).
  • ἀφέλησθε - ἀφαιρεῖσθαι "to take something (accusative) away from somebody (accusative)". If the word had have been ἀποστερεῖν (same meaning but with a negative connotation, like "to defraud somebody of something") it would be with the accusative of person and genitive of thing, which is probably why the manuscripts have ἧς in this phrase.
  • ὑπὸ τῇ δυσχερεστάτῃ τύχῃ - ὑπό + dative, expressing subjection or dependence
  • κινδυνεύσαιμ᾽ ἂν - optative.
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Jordan Day §3 - Feedback - ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου

Post by Stephen Hughes » June 17th, 2014, 1:33 am

Jordan Day wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:I'm sure by now, you are beginning to get a first impression of the degree to which there are similarities and differences between this Greek and the Greek in the New Testament.
As difficult as it is, it still seems like the same language. It is mostly the vocabulary I am struggling with (both with usage as well as definitions). Ive noticed that the text I struggle with the most are said to be of "high literary style" and of "the well educated", But to me it still looks like the same Greek that John Chrysostom wrote and of near equal difficulty for me. So I still cant seem to point at anything and say "Ah ha! A Koine author never would have said *that*, thats how I know its Attic and not Koine!"
Impersonals v. full verbs is one feature. More uses of participles v. infinitives. More frequent use of the optative mood. Words relating to the legal system and polity in city of Athens. Seeming over-usage of ... μέν ... , ... δέ ... .

John Chrysostom studied rhetoric as part of his education, and was the best student in his school in what we would now call classical Greek language and literature. He, however, disappointed his teacher and decided to enter the Church. Lysias, whose twenty-fourth speech we are looking at together here, was one of the Canon of Ten (Aeschines, Andocides, Antiphon, Demosthenes, Dinarchus, Hypereides, Isaeus, Isocrates, Lycurgus, Lysias) - those orators from the 4th and 5th century BCE that were used as exemplars for speech writing and public speaking, along with a formal theoretical study of rhetorical style and techniques. Students would read and study their works as part of their education throughout the Greek, Hellenistic, Roman times - Roman means both during both the separation of Eastern and Western Roman learning and its reintegration around the mid-fifteenth century. The re-secularising of classical learning happened a few times during the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) period (identifiable by the re-emergence of the platonic ideas of the pre-existence of the soul and the equation of σῶμα and σῆμα), but never to the extent that happened in the renaissance in Italy. At the time of John Chrysostom, we should bear in mind, classical learning was part of what it meant to be an educated Roman, and he was a Christian Roman, so he used his classical learning in the service of the Church.
Lysias 24.3 wrote:ἤδη τοίνυν, ὦ βουλή, δῆλός ἐστι ¹φθονῶν¹, ὅτι τοιαύτῃ κεχρημένος συμφορᾷ τούτου βελτίων εἰμὶ πολίτης. καὶ γὰρ οἶμαι ³δεῖν³, ὦ βουλή, τὰ τοῦ σώματος δυστυχήματα ⁴τοῖς⁴ τῆς ψυχῆς ⁴ ⁵ἐπιτηδεύμασιν⁵ ⁴ ἰᾶσθαι, [καλῶς]. εἰ γὰρ ⁷ἐξ ἴσου⁷ ⁸τῇ συμφορᾷ⁸ καὶ τὴν ⁹διάνοιαν⁹ ἕξω καὶ τὸν ¹⁰ἄλλον¹⁰ βίον διάξω, ¹¹τί¹¹ τούτου διοίσω;
Jordan Day wrote:Now therefore, oh council, he is obvious ¹of envy¹ (clearly ¹jeleous¹?), because[²even?²] after having been subjected to such a misfortune I am [²still?²] a better citizen than this man. And I consider ³it to be necessary³, oh council, the misfortunes of the body ⁴along with⁴ the needs of the soul to be healed, [well]. For if I ⁶were⁶ ⁷evenly⁷ in the ⁸situation⁸, and had the [same as ...] ⁹mindset⁹ and will live the ¹⁰other¹⁰ life, ¹¹what¹¹ would I differ from this man?

I had to look up συμφορά in LSJ to try to find a definition that made sense, but it didnt help much. I think this is one of the things holding me back in my understanding. I cant grasp εἰ γὰρ ἐξ ἴσου τῇ συμφορᾷ καὶ τὴν διάνοιαν ἕξω, and I think its because I dont know what he is talking about. I think he is saying something like, " If I were (to an even degree) in this man's unfortunate situation and had his mindset..."
The simple answer is that he is bad-mouthing the plaintiff. He basically says, "if my thinking were as bad as my disability, then my mind would be like this guy." You don't get it, and it would take a while for the penny to drop for those listening as well, so it is probably humour. The punch line is τί τούτου διοίσω, and the tension is that διάνοιαν has two meanings - way of thinking (what you call "mindset") and capacity for thought (IQ). Something like, "I haven't been to the physiotherapist as many times as this guy needs to go to the psychotherapist."
  1. Masculine singular nominative present participle. δῆλος is used with a participle.
  2. traditionally this is translated as "despite" in the first clause, but that brings a negativity in the English which is not in the Greek.
  3. δεῖν - this could have been δεῖ or δέω in direct speech. Considering section 1, it is probably δέω "it is necessary for me"
  4. along with - by (dative = ὑπό + genitive). The dative case used with a middle passive verb.
  5. needs - activities, you could look at the dictionary for that group of words once the dust settles.
  6. were - you have introduced a word. the verbs follow this adverbial phrase, you could look at them first. Introducing a verb into this type of translation that is not in the Greek is a last resort and very rare when there are already some verbs in the sentence.
  7. evenly - that is LSJ's gloss for ἐξ ἴσου, but here we need to look at a larger chunk to get the meaning. First, when ever you see a prepositional phrase translated with -ly, it is inaccurate. It is a convenient approximation that sort of fudges over subtleties and allows for a passable translation into English. ἴσος as an adjective goes with a dative, and some people will say that the prepositional phrase is used instead of the preposition because he wants to add the dative after it. That is not entirely accurate, because there would be no reason why the dative τῇ συμφορᾷ couldn't be added to the adverb. You could look through the dictionary to see which meanings of ἐκ would be most suitable. For now perhaps, you could understand it as, "being on par with".
  8. τῇ συμφορᾷ - this could have a neutral meaning, but here it has a negative meaning, "misfortune". This particular guy's misfortune is his disability, so the sense is "my disability".
  9. mindset - mindset affected by (a) disability as bad as / on par with this physical disability that you can see in my body
  10. other life - the rest of my life. Cf. John 10:16 Καὶ ἄλλα πρόβατα ἔχω, ἃ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τῆς αὐλῆς ταύτης· κἀκεῖνά με δεῖ ἀγαγεῖν, καὶ τῆς φωνῆς μου ἀκούσουσιν· καὶ γενήσεται μία ποίμνη, εἷς ποιμήν.
  11. what - in what way
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Wes Wood
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#5 Lysias' Λόγος ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου

Post by Wes Wood » June 18th, 2014, 11:58 pm

"and with these indisputable tokens (evidence per the clue) he might indeed take advantage of the body of Rome, that I mount horses and in the skill of wealth, that I am able to be with the men who are able to use up [wealth]. Indeed then, the wealth [that I gained] by skill and the rest of my life, as much as it may be, I know all of you know: but likewise also I will say a few words.

I am still unsure how to handle the underlined phrase. I think I understand what it must be, but I don't fully grasp the syntax. Overall, I feel better about this one than any of the others.
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Stephen Hughes
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Wes Wood §5 - Feedback - ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου

Post by Stephen Hughes » June 19th, 2014, 2:12 am

Wes Wood wrote:I am still unsure how to handle the underlined phrase. I think I understand what it must be, but I don't fully grasp the syntax. Overall, I feel better about this one than any of the others.
I will discuss those nested constructions with the article down the page a bit - I have underlined another part with the same lack of understanding. I agree with you that this section 5 was very well done, and seems to flow better than the others.
Λυσίας, ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου 24.5 wrote:καὶ τεκμηρίοις χρῆται τῆς μὲν τοῦ σώματος ῥώμης, ὅτι ἐπὶ τοὺς ἵππους ἀναβαίνω, τῆς δ᾽ ἐν τῇ τέχνῃ εὐπορίας, ὅτι δύναμαι συνεῖναι δυναμένοις ἀνθρώποις ἀναλίσκειν. τὴν μὲν οὖν ἐκ τῆς τέχνης εὐπορίαν καὶ τὸν ἄλλον τὸν ἐμὸν βίον, οἷος τυγχάνει, πάντας ὑμᾶς οἴμαι γιγνώσκειν: ὅμως δὲ κἀγὼ διὰ βραχέων ἐρῶ.
Wes Wood wrote:"and with these indisputable tokens (evidence per the clue) he might indeed take advantage of the body of Rome, that I mount horses and in the skill of wealth, that I am able to be with the men who are able to use up [wealth]. Indeed then, the wealth [that I gained] by skill and the rest of my life, as much as it may be, I know all of you know: but likewise also I will say a few words.
The parts that are good, are very good, and the part that is not, is because of a misunderstanding of the structure. Once you "see" the structure everything should click together.

The first part extends till ἀναλίσκειν. Let's look at how the words relate to each other. The structure rests on the fact that χρῆται takes a dative, (not the genitive as you have taken it). Again: Think case ending relationships for meaning, not primarily word order. The word τεκμήριον takes a genitive "evidence (of)". τεκμήριον is in the plural here because there are two (2) proofs / pieces of evidence. Each piece of evidence has what is proven in the genitive and the reason for the proof after the ὅτι "because". Rework this first section, and we can look at it again.

Be careful of these nested phrases; τῆς μὲν τοῦ σώματος ῥώμης "of the body of Rome", τῆς ... ἐν τῇ τέχνῃ εὐπορίας "in the skill of wealth" - the outer on is modified by the inner one. Rework these accordingly.

Two other small points; In a general sense τέχνη means "skill", but here it is a technical term. Somebody with a τέχνη would no longer be a simple ἐργάτης, and they would probably belong to a guild. οἷος - "of what sort" - this is a regular, not idiomatic use.

I realise it is easy to gloss over them in translation, but what is the difference between ἐν and ἐκ here?
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Wes Wood
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#5 Lysias' Λόγος ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου

Post by Wes Wood » June 19th, 2014, 3:43 am

“And he uses as evidence of strength of body that I mount horses and he uses as evidence of wealth in trade that I am able to be with the men who are able to use up [wealth]. Indeed then, the wealth [that I gained] by trade and the rest of my life, of what sort it may be, I know all of you know: but likewise also I will say a few words.”

καὶ τεκμηρίοις χρῆται τῆς μὲν τοῦ σώματος ῥώμης, ὅτι ἐπὶ τοὺς ἵππους ἀναβαίνω, τῆς δ᾽ ἐν τῇ τέχνῃ εὐπορίας, ὅτι δύναμαι συνεῖναι δυναμένοις ἀνθρώποις ἀναλίσκειν. τὴν μὲν οὖν ἐκ τῆς τέχνης εὐπορίαν καὶ τὸν ἄλλον τὸν ἐμὸν βίον, οἷος τυγχάνει, πάντας ὑμᾶς οἴμαι γιγνώσκειν: ὅμως δὲ κἀγὼ διὰ βραχέων ἐρῶ.

Is this better? In regard to the difference between εν and εξ here, I can only say that I perceive the difference to be that εν refers to the period of time that he was involved in the trade while the εξ refers to the wealth acquired during that entire process. I will admit that I do not find this explanation particularly satisfying, but it is entirely my own. I may or may not respond to this before I get back, but I have already started on six. You were spot on about the unfamiliar vocabulary. In any case I hope to have it ready to go as soon as I get back.
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Wes Wood §5 - Final feedback - ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου

Post by Stephen Hughes » June 19th, 2014, 4:49 am

Wes Wood (Final draft) wrote:And he uses as evidence of strength of body that I mount horses and he uses as evidence of wealth in trade that I am able to be with the men who are able to use up [wealth]. Indeed then, the wealth [that I gained] by trade and the rest of my life, of what sort it may be, I know all of you know: but likewise also I will say a few words.
Wes Wood wrote:Is this better?
Not only better. In fact, very good. The word order in the second part is not normal English. Perhaps you would like to work out what the structure of the meaning is in the Greek. That should give you more confidence to change the word-order in English, without the fear of losing anything in the Greek.

I think that you should reconsider ὅμως. It is both clever and foolish to gloss that as "all the same". It's raining, but I'll go to the beach all the same. It means the plans didn't change. ὅμ- means same, and "all the same" means the opposite, but there is a problem with that, because it can be confusing.

ὅμως is a conjunction used throughout Greek, meaning "yet", "however", while ὁμῶς (ὁμός) is an adverb from the very earliest period of Greek meaning "likewise", "in the same way". [ὅμοιος is used as a word meaning "like" without apposition to ὅμος in the literature of our era, viz. in the pre-Athanasian language]
Wes Wood wrote:In regard to the difference between εν and εξ here, I can only say that I perceive the difference to be that εν refers to the period of time that he was involved in the trade while the εξ refers to the wealth acquired during that entire process. I will admit that I do not find this explanation particularly satisfying, but it is entirely my own.
I, as you must realise, am an experientalist - I think the best way to understand something is by trying it. I think it great to have a try at things, and then get some feedback. Your own impression can stand for you, till you get some "outside" confirmation (other contexts - subjective, dictionary - more objective, other people's agreement - non self-referential subjectivity). Language is a skill that needs to be applied in mid-air, or when you have to guess and never be sure.
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§6 - Lysias' Λόγος ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου

Post by Wes Wood » June 23rd, 2014, 6:31 pm

"For indeed my father left no inheritance behind for me, and my mother being dead I have not fed these three years, and there are not yet children who belong to me who will help me. But I have a trade which allows me to make a little, the same trade which indeed already I work with difficulty, but I am not yet able to have someone (to give it to?). But there is not another income for me except this, which if you take away from me, I would always run the risk of being in extremely hard to manage circumstances."

I would appreciate some guidance on the last phrase in bold. Is this close? I am have not seen many of these words enough (or at all) in passages to be comfortable with their different usages. I would have finished this yesterday if it were not for the last phrase :?
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Wes Wood §6 - First feedback - ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἀδυνάτου

Post by Stephen Hughes » June 24th, 2014, 9:08 am

Wes Wood wrote:I would appreciate some guidance on the last phrase in bold. Is this close? I am have not seen many of these words enough (or at all) in passages to be comfortable with their different usages. I would have finished this yesterday if it were not for the last phrase :?
Lysias, On the refusal of a pension to the invalid 24, 6 wrote:ἐμοὶ γὰρ ὁ μὲν πατὴρ κατέλιπεν οὐδέν, ¹τὴν δὲ μητέρα τελευτήσασαν πέπαυμαι τρέφων¹ τρίτον ἔτος τουτί, παῖδες δέ μοι οὔπω εἰσὶν οἵ με ²θεραπεύσουσι². τέχνην δὲ κέκτημαι βραχέα δυναμένην ὠφελεῖν, ἣν ³αὐτὸς³ μὲν ἤδη χαλεπῶς ἐργάζομαι, ⁵τὸν διαδεξόμενον⁵ δ᾽ αὐτὴν οὔπω δύναμαι ⁴κτήσασθαι⁴. πρόσοδος δέ μοι οὐκ ἔστιν ἄλλη πλὴν ⁶ταύτης⁶, ἣν¹ ἂν ἀφέλησθέ με, ⁷κινδυνεύσαιμ᾽ ἂν ὑπὸ τῇ δυσχερεστάτῃ γενέσθαι τύχῃ⁷.
Wes Wood wrote:For indeed my father left no inheritance behind for me, and my mother being dead ¹I have not fed¹ these three years, and there are not yet children who belong to me who will ²help² me. But I have a trade which allows me to make a little, the ³same³ trade which indeed already I work with difficulty, but I am not yet able to ⁴have⁴ someone (⁵to give it to⁵?). But there is not another income for me except ⁶this⁶, which if you take away from me, ⁷I would always run the risk of being in extremely hard to manage circumstances.
Things to look at whereby you might be able to improve your understanding:
  1. What do you mean by, "I have not fed"? It seems that you haven't accounted for τὴν ... μητέρα τελευτήσασαν being in the accusative case.
  2. You might find a better sense for θεραπεῦσαι in a dictionary. Consider the range of options; I think you could probably take two of them together here.
  3. αὐτός is perhaps equivalent to μόνος ἀνεῦ βοηθοῦ. Watch the agreement here - αὐτός is not accusative singular feminine.
  4. κτήσασθαι "acquire" is recognisably differentiated from κεκτῆσθαι "possess"​ in the classical period. In the New Testament we only find the present.
  5. διαδεξόμενον would be something like an apprentice. A τέχνη "trade" is not "given on", "it is taught"
  6. πλὴν ταύτης "except this" - the translation is good, but to what does the ταύτης refer? (trade or pension)
  7. κινδυνεύσαιμ᾽ ἂν ὑπὸ τῇ δυσχερεστάτῃ γενέσθαι τύχῃ - I would always run the risk of being in extremely hard to manage circumstances. - what's your problem with this? The only thing I can see is that κινδυνεύσαιμι is not κινδυνεύσοιμι, so perhaps your "always" (while perhaps good) is mis-placed in the sentence. What's your reason for including it.
0 x
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

§7 - Lysias On the refusal of a pension to the invalid

Post by Stephen Hughes » June 24th, 2014, 9:28 am

Section 7 means we are a quarter of the way through already. :geek:

Here is a tip for your reading practice: One of the keys to successful reading is identifying uncertainty. If after working through a text, you can see clearly what you don't know, then look up those one or two points in a dictionary or grammar and then come back to the text. If there are more than 2 points of uncertainty, then look at a smaller section of the text. If there are really a lot, look at the grammar words and the grammar of words that you don't know. Language learners read by "knowing" the meaning of the words. Competent users of the language look at the structure, then piece the "meanings" together from that.

Now we hear the speaker's account of his life:
Lysias, On the refusal of a pension to the invalid 24, 7 wrote:μὴ τοίνυν, ἐπειδή γε ἔστιν, ὦ βουλή, σῶσαί με δικαίως, ἀπολέσητε ἀδίκως: μηδὲ ἃ νεωτέρῳ καὶ μᾶλλον ἐρρωμένῳ ὄντι ἔδοτε, πρεσβύτερον καὶ ἀσθενέστερον γιγνόμενον ἀφέλησθε: μηδὲ πρότερον καὶ περὶ τοὺς οὐδὲν ἔχοντας κακὸν ἐλεημονέστατοι δοκοῦντες εἶναι νυνὶ διὰ τοῦτον τοὺς καὶ1 τοῖς ἐχθροῖς ἐλεινοὺς ὄντας ἀγρίως ἀποδέξησθε: μηδ᾽ ἐμὲ τολμήσαντες ἀδικῆσαι καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους τοὺς ὁμοίως ἐμοὶ διακειμένους ἀθυμῆσαι ποιήσητε.

1 τοὺς καὶ Reiske: καὶ τοὺς.
Hints for §7: (If there is anything you are uncertain about after your own reading, you might find it here, otherwise you could try in the Middle Liddel.)
  • μὴ τοίνυν ... ἀπολέσητε ἀδίκως - the whole thing hangs on the meaning of the word ἔστιν (it is not ἐστίν).
  • ἀφέλησθε - also with the ἅ.
  • τοὺς οὐδὲν ἔχοντας κακὸν - consider that the κακὸν could be adverbial.
  • ἐλεημονέστατοι δοκοῦντες εἶναι - you need to stick to the rules for the construction of δοκεῖν that was introduced previously, and to not stick closely to the rules you have assumed for the formation of superlatives.
  • ἐλεινός - finding pity.
  • ἀποδέξησθε - *don't rush to a conclusion here*.
  • διακειμένους - being in a certain state.
  • ἀθυμῆσαι - to not have the heart.
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0 x
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

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