Plato, Laws Book 1

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Wes Wood
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Plato, Laws Book 1

Post by Wes Wood » October 6th, 2015, 8:32 pm

Plato, Laws wrote:Ἀθηναῖος:

θεὸς ἤ τις ἀνθρώπων ὑμῖν, ὦ ξένοι, εἴληφε τὴν αἰτίαν τῆς τῶν νόμων διαθέσεως;[1]

Κλεινίας
:
θεός, ὦ ξένε, θεός, ὥς γε τὸ δικαιότατον [2] εἰπεῖν: παρὰ μὲν ἡμῖν Ζεύς, παρὰ δὲ Λακεδαιμονίοις, ὅθεν [3] ὅδε [4] ἐστίν, οἶμαι [5] φάναι [6] τούτους Ἀπόλλωνα. ἦ γάρ; [7]

Μέγιλλος:

ναί.

Ἀθηναῖος:

μῶν [8] οὖν καθ᾽ [9] Ὅμηρον λέγεις ὡς τοῦ Μίνω φοιτῶντος [10] πρὸς τὴν τοῦ πατρὸς ἑκάστοτε [11] συνουσίαν [12] δι᾽ [13] ἐνάτου [14] ἔτους καὶ κατὰ τὰς παρ᾽ ἐκείνου φήμας [15] ταῖς πόλεσιν ὑμῖν θέντος τοὺς νόμους;

Κλεινίας:

λέγεται γὰρ οὕτω παρ᾽ ἡμῖν: καὶ δὴ καὶ [16] τὸν ἀδελφόν γε αὐτοῦ Ῥαδάμανθυν—ἀκούετε γὰρ τὸ ὄνομα—δικαιότατον [2]


[1] ἡ διάθεσις: placing in order, arranging, composing
[2] δικαιότατον: accusative superlative
[3] ὅθεν: therefore, where, from where
[4] ὅδε: If I understand this word correctly, it is declined like the article with enclitic -δε attached and ὅδε is approximately equivalent to οὗτος.
[5] οἴομαι: suppose, think, deem, imagine
[6] φάναι: to declare, make known, say
[7] ἧ γάρ: Is it not so?
[8] μῶν: question word expecting a negative answer ‘but surely not? is it so?’
[9] καθά (not κατά): according as, just as (think καθάπερ)
[10] φοιτάω: I go back and forth; visit
[11] ἑκάστοτε: =ἕκαστος
[12] ἡ συνουσία: visit, commune
[13] δι᾽: marking a standing trip once every nine years here?
[14] ἔνατος: ninth
[15] ἡ φήμη: oracle, report
[16] καὶ δὴ καὶ: and especially; and in particular; and what is more
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Wes Wood
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Re: Plato, Laws Book 1

Post by Wes Wood » October 6th, 2015, 8:40 pm

Wes Wood Translation wrote:Athenian:
Is a god or one of you men, O strangers, taking the blame/responsibility for the writing of the laws?

Kleinias:
A god, O Stranger, a god, [is responsible for our laws] as seems most just to say: Zeus for us but for the Lakedaimonions, where this one is from, I think they call him Apollo. Isn’t that right?

Megillos:
Yes.

Athenian:
Surely you really aren’t, like Homer, saying that Minos went back and forth to commune each time with his father during the ninth year and according to the reports/oracles of that one [Zeus?] made the laws for your cities, are you?

Kleinias
So it is said by us: and additionally his brother Hradamanthun--for you hear the name--[is/was] most just.
It is far more wooden than I would prefer, but I thought it would be more helpful this way for beginners or for those who haven't read much outside of the New Testament. If I have made any glaring errors, please let me know.
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Wes Wood
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Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: Plato, Laws Book 1

Post by Wes Wood » October 7th, 2015, 6:45 pm

Plato Laws wrote: γεγονέναι. τοῦτον οὖν φαῖμεν [1] ἂν ἡμεῖς γε οἱ Κρῆτες, ἐκ τοῦ τότε [2] διανέμειν [3]τὰ περὶ τὰς δίκας [4], ὀρθῶς [5]τοῦτον τὸν ἔπαινον [6] αὐτὸν εἰληφέναι [7].
[1] first person plural optative φημί
[2] τότε:
[3] διανέμειν: to distribute, apportion, spread
[4] ἡ δίκη: justice, right, custom; punishment
[5] ὀρθῶς: rightly, correctly, plainly
[6] ἔπαινος: praise, approval, commendation
[7] Perfect Active Infinitive of λαμβάνω
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Wes Wood
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Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: Plato, Laws Book 1

Post by Wes Wood » October 7th, 2015, 6:46 pm

Wes Wood wrote: Certainly we Cretans would say this: that from the time of the distribution of the things concerning justice, rightly this one receives the same praise.
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Wes Wood
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Re: Plato, Laws Book 1

Post by Wes Wood » October 7th, 2015, 6:53 pm

Plato Laws wrote: Ἀθηναῖος:

καὶ καλόν γε τὸ κλέος [1] ὑεῖ [2] τε Διὸς [3] μάλα [4] πρέπον [5]. ἐπειδὴ [6] δὲ ἐν τοιούτοις ἤθεσι [7] τέθραφθε [8] νομικοῖς [9] σύ τε καὶ ὅδε, [10] προσδοκῶ [11] οὐκ ἂν ἀηδῶς [12] περί τε πολιτείας [13] τὰ νῦν [14] καὶ νόμων τὴν διατριβήν, [15] λέγοντάς τε καὶ ἀκούοντας ἅμα κατὰ τὴν πορείαν, [16] ποιήσασθαι. πάντως [17] δ᾽ ἥ γε ἐκ Κνωσοῦ ὁδὸς εἰς τὸ τοῦ Διὸς [3] ἄντρον [18] καὶ ἱερόν, ὡς ἀκούομεν, ἱκανή, καὶ ἀνάπαυλαι [19] κατὰ τὴν ὁδόν, ὡς εἰκός [20], πνίγους [21] ὄντος τὰ νῦν, [14] ἐν τοῖς ὑψηλοῖς [22] δένδρεσίν [23] εἰσι σκιαραί, [24] καὶ ταῖς ἡλικίαις [25] πρέπον [5 ]ἂν ἡμῶν εἴη [26] τὸ διαναπαύεσθαι [27] πυκνὰ [28] ἐν αὐταῖς, λόγοις τε ἀλλήλους παραμυθουμένους [29] τὴν ὁδὸν ἅπασαν οὕτω μετὰ ῥᾳστώνης [30] διαπερᾶναι. [31]
[1] τὸ κλέος: rumor, report, news, good report, fame, glory
[2] ὑεῖ: = dative singular of υἱός
[3] Διός: Zeus
[4] μάλα: very, exceedingly, more
[5] πρέπον: it is fitting, it is proper
[6] ἐπειδή: after that, since, when
[7] ἦθος: character, habits, morals, manners
[8] τρέφω: brought up, raised, feed, nourish
[9] νομικός: relating to the law, trained in the law
[10] ὅδε: = οὗτος and declined like the article with -δε attached
[11] προσδοκαω: expect, think, suppose
[12] ἀηδής of which ἀηδῶς is the adverb: distasteful, disagreeable, unpleasant
[13] ἡ πολιτεία: citizenship, civic life, republic, government
[14] τὰ νῦν = νῦν
[15] ἡ διατριβή: a way of spending time, a pastime, amusement; to waste time
[16] ἡ πορεία: walking, going, journey, way, passage
[17] πάντως: by all means, doubtless, altogether, at any rate
[18] τό ἄντρον: cave, cavern
[19] ἡ ἀνάπαυλα: repose, rest, resting place
[20] ὡς εἰκός: as is likely, reasonable, in all probability
[21] τὸ πνῖγος: stifling heat, choking heat, hot
[22] ὑψηλός: high, tall, proud
[23] τὸ δένδρον: tree, fruit tree
[24] ἡ σκιαρός: shady, giving shade
[25 ]ἡλικία: time of life, life span, height, stature
[26] εἴη: third person singular optative of εἰμί
[27] διαναπαύομαι: rest awhile
[28] πυκνά: frequent, quick, rapid, shrewd, often
[29] παραμυθέομαι: comfort, console, appease, ease
[30] ἡ ῥᾳστώνη: easiness, ease, good nature, kindness, relief
[31] διαπεραίνω: bring to a conclusion, discuss thoroughly
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Wes Wood
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Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: Plato, Laws Book 1

Post by Wes Wood » October 7th, 2015, 6:56 pm

Wes Wood wrote: Athenian:
And good indeed is such renown and to a son of Zeus it is more proper. But since with manners such as these you have been raised in the law--both you and this man here--I expect it is not disagreeable [to talk] about the government and laws now to pass the time, both talking and listening at the same time while we make our journey. But, at any rate, the road from Knosus to the cave and temple of Zeus, as we hear, is sufficient and [there are] resting places along the way, in all likelihood, now while it is hot, among the the tall trees which give shade, and it will suit the aged of us to rest awhile frequently among them. And with words helping each other the whole way thus making the trip with ease.
This was exceptionally hard for me to leave in this shape, but I am, so far, sticking with my original goal.
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Wes Wood
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Re: Plato, Laws Book 1

Post by Wes Wood » October 8th, 2015, 12:28 am

Plato Laws wrote: Κλεινίας
:
καὶ μὴν [1] ἔστιν γε, ὦ ξένε, προϊόντι [2] κυπαρίττων [3] τε ἐν τοῖς ἄλσεσιν [4] ὕψη [5] καὶ κάλλη [6] θαυμάσια, [7] καὶ λειμῶνες [8] ἐν οἷσιν ἀναπαυόμενοι [9] διατρίβοιμεν [10] ἄν.
[1] καὶ μὴν: And truly
[2] πρόειμι: go forward, advance, go on
[3] ἡ κυπάριασσος: cypress tree
[4] τὸ ἄλσος: glade, grove
[5] ὕψος: height, top, summit, crown
[6] κάλλος: beauty, pleasure
[7] θαυμάσιος: wonderful, marvelous, admirable, excellent
[8] λειμών: any moist grassy place, a meadow
[9] ἀναπαύω: make, cease, stop, hinder; mid./pass. to take one’s rest, halt
[10] διατρίβω: consume, waste, perish utterly, waste time, pass away, delay. (This verb is first person plural optative.)
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Wes Wood
Posts: 686
Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: Plato, Laws Book 1

Post by Wes Wood » October 8th, 2015, 12:29 am

Wes Wood Translation wrote:Kleinias
And it is indeed true, O Stranger, to the one going into the groves of cypresses, both high and wonderfully beautiful, [there are] also meadows in which while resting we could pass the time.
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Wes Wood
Posts: 686
Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: Plato, Laws Book 1

Post by Wes Wood » October 8th, 2015, 2:24 pm

Plato Laws wrote: Ἀθηναῖος:

ὀρθῶς [1] λέγεις.

Κλεινίας
:
πάνυ μὲν οὖν [2]: ἰδόντες δὲ μᾶλλον φήσομεν. ἀλλ᾽ ἴωμεν [3] ἀγαθῇ τύχῃ. [4]

Ἀθηναῖος:

ταῦτ᾽ εἴη. [5] καί μοι λέγε: κατὰ τί [6] τὰ συσσίτιά [7] τε ὑμῖν συντέταχεν [8] ὁ νόμος καὶ τὰ γυμνάσια [9] καὶ τὴν τῶν ὅπλων [10] ἕξιν; [11]
[1] ὀρθῶς: rightly, truly, correctly
[2] πάνυ μὲν οὖν: yes by all means, no doubt, certainly
[3] εῖμι: first person plural subjunctive.
[4] ἡ τύχῃ: favor of the gods, luck, fortune success
[5] εἴη: third person singular optative of εἰμί
[6] κατὰ τί: why, for what reason
[7] τὸ συσσίτιον: common meal, common hall
[8] συντάσσω: put in order, arrange, organize
[9] τὸ γυμνάσιον: bodily exercises, school, gymnasium (in the classical sense)
[10] τὸ ὅπλον: smith’s tool, tackle/tackling of ships, weapon
[11] ἕξις: state or habit, possession, skill, condition
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Wes Wood
Posts: 686
Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: Plato, Laws Book 1

Post by Wes Wood » October 8th, 2015, 2:28 pm

Wes Wood Translation wrote: Athenian:
You speak the truth.

Kleinias:
No doubt: and when we see [them] we will say more. But if we are going, [let it be] with good luck.

Athenian:
May these things come to pass. And tell me: why [are] the common halls for both of you arranged by the law as well as the gymnasiums and the condition/possession of weapons?
1 edit: added a question mark.
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

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