Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

Post by Stephen Hughes » July 8th, 2016, 10:25 am

Peter Streitenberger wrote:Would a suitable paraphrase then be: "And he made us unto people in his reign"?
Does that mean something similar to "He made us a people over whom he himself would reign"?

I have used the person of the "make" to express the verbal meaning of the "kingdom".
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Peter Streitenberger
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Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:45 am

Re: Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

Post by Peter Streitenberger » July 8th, 2016, 10:36 am

Yes, I personally think, that this paraphrase could be reasonable, right?
Yours
Peter

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

Post by Stephen Hughes » July 8th, 2016, 10:41 am

Peter Streitenberger wrote:Yes, I personally think, that this paraphrase could be reasonable, right?
Whatever the paraphrase, the Greek tells you that we were not before, but we are now.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

George F Somsel
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Joined: May 9th, 2011, 10:11 am

Re: Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

Post by George F Somsel » July 9th, 2016, 2:10 am

Ποιέω
β. w. a double accusative, of the obj. and the pred. (Hom. et al.; LXX; ApcEsdr 4:27 p. 38, 32 Tdf. λίθους ἄρτους ποιήσας; Mel., P. 68, 494 ποιήσας ἡμᾶς ἱεράτευμα καινόν), make someone or someth. (into) someth. W. noun as predicate acc.: ποιήσω ὑμᾶς ἁλιεῖς ἀνθρώπων
William Arndt, Frederick W. Danker, and Walter Bauer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 840.

It might be rendered "He constituted us as a kingdom."
george
gfsomsel



… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.



- Jan Hus

Peter Streitenberger
Posts: 206
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:45 am

Re: Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

Post by Peter Streitenberger » July 9th, 2016, 5:43 am

Dear friends,

Stephen, you wrote:
Whatever the paraphrase, the Greek tells you that we were not before, but we are now.
That is for sure - the force of the used sense is obvious.

George, you wrote:
"He constituted us as a kingdom."

-> sounds good and fits. A nice rendering.....

I should have consulted Danker (the German Version: Bauer-Aland), as he has some nice examples, as I see, for the double accusative, I somehow missed these in my TLG searches.

Yours
Peter
P.S. In case there are TLG-folks reading along: why do I get not the one result of Danker, searching in the textual search for: ous ous poi

Peter Streitenberger
Posts: 206
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:45 am

Re: Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

Post by Peter Streitenberger » July 9th, 2016, 6:52 am

Dear friends,

Here two parallel passages, for whom it might be interesting:
- ὡς τοὺς μὲν φίλους ἐχθροὺς μὴ ποιῆσαι, τοὺς δ’ ἐχθροὺς φίλους ἐργάσασθαι· (Phytagoras)
We ought so to behave to one another as to avoid making enemies of our friends, and at the same time to make friends of our enemies.
- φίλους δὲ προσεποιήσατο Λακεδαιμονίους (Herodot)
He won the Lakedaimons as friends.
Greetings
Peter, Germany

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

Post by Stephen Hughes » July 9th, 2016, 11:58 pm

George F Somsel wrote:
Ποιέω
β. w. a double accusative, of the obj. and the pred. (Hom. et al.; LXX; ApcEsdr 4:27 p. 38, 32 Tdf. λίθους ἄρτους ποιήσας; Mel., P. 68, 494 ποιήσας ἡμᾶς ἱεράτευμα καινόν), make someone or someth. (into) someth. W. noun as predicate acc.: ποιήσω ὑμᾶς ἁλιεῖς ἀνθρώπων
William Arndt, Frederick W. Danker, and Walter Bauer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 840.
Is the text of Melito of Sardis, On the Pascha (Mel., P. 68, 494) available online?
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

George F Somsel
Posts: 172
Joined: May 9th, 2011, 10:11 am

Re: Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

Post by George F Somsel » July 10th, 2016, 3:03 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:
George F Somsel wrote:
Ποιέω
β. w. a double accusative, of the obj. and the pred. (Hom. et al.; LXX; ApcEsdr 4:27 p. 38, 32 Tdf. λίθους ἄρτους ποιήσας; Mel., P. 68, 494 ποιήσας ἡμᾶς ἱεράτευμα καινόν), make someone or someth. (into) someth. W. noun as predicate acc.: ποιήσω ὑμᾶς ἁλιεῖς ἀνθρώπων
William Arndt, Frederick W. Danker, and Walter Bauer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 840.
Is the text of Melito of Sardis, On the Pascha (Mel., P. 68, 494) available online?
Not that I have yet found other than in translation.
george
gfsomsel



… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.



- Jan Hus

Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

Post by Stephen Hughes » July 10th, 2016, 1:33 pm

George F Somsel wrote:Not that I have yet found other than in translation.
PG 5 is readily available as an undigitised source.

He is a little too late to be sub-apostolic. Consequently, I suppose, his works have not receive as much attention.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Peter Streitenberger
Posts: 206
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:45 am

Re: Aristoteles, Divisiones 5col1 - as parallel to Rev. 1.6

Post by Peter Streitenberger » July 10th, 2016, 2:48 pm

Dear friends,

here are some lines of the requested Melito passage (if you need more, let me know):

καὶ τὸν διάβολον στήσας πενθήρη
ὡς Μωυσῆς τὸν Φαραώ. (485)
Οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ τὴν ἀνομίαν πατάξας
καὶ τὴν ἀδικίαν ἀτεκνώσας
ὡς Μωυσῆς Αἴγυπτον.
Οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ῥυσάμενος ἡμᾶς
ἐκ δουλείας εἰς ἐλευθερίαν, (490)
ἐκ σκότους εἰς φῶς,
ἐκ θανάτου εἰς ζωήν, @1
ἐκ τυραννίδος εἰς βασιλείαν αἰωνίαν
[καὶ ποιήσας ἡμᾶς ἱεράτευμα καινὸν
καὶ λαὸν περιούσιον αἰώνιον.] (495)
Οὗτός ἐστιν τὸ πάσχα τῆς σωτηρίας ἡμῶν.
Οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ἐν πολλοῖς πολλὰ ὑπομείνας.
Οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ἐν τῷ Ἀβὲλ φονευθείς,
ἐν δὲ τῷ Ἰσὰκ δεθείς,
ἐν δὲ τῷ Ἰακὼβ ξενιτεύσας, (500)
ἐν δὲ τῷ Ἰωσὴφ πραθείς,
ἐν δὲ τῷ Μωυσῇ ἐκτεθείς,
ἐν δὲ τῷ ἀμνῷ σφαγείς,
ἐν δὲ τῷ Δαυὶδ διωχθείς,

Yours
Peter

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