Jeremiah 17:1-4
Forum rules
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
-
- Posts: 87
- Joined: October 15th, 2011, 12:48 pm
Jeremiah 17:1-4
I have Rahlfs-Hanhart Septuagint, which I got as a birthday present, and I don't have any formal training on the LXX. I'm just wondering why the first four verses in Jeremiah is missing? It skips from 16:21 to 17:5.
-
- Posts: 3351
- Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Contact:
Re: Jeremiah 17:1-4
The Masoretic text (Hebrew) and the LXX (Greek) text for Jeremiah differ considerably. Here is a page laying out the major (verse level) differences: http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Jerem ... endix.html
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
-
- Posts: 711
- Joined: May 5th, 2011, 9:21 pm
- Location: Burnsville, MN, USA
- Contact:
Re: Jeremiah 17:1-4
The first and best advice I can give, is to first go to the NETS site (New English Translation of the Septuagint) and read the introduction to any specific book you are looking at. The LXX is an amalgam of sources. The MT (Masoritic text) many times does not line up the the Greek or Old Greek (OG). Note the that Greek OT (LXX | Septuagint) does not line up one-to-one with the Masoritic OT. Here is the link to the NETS Jeremiah chapter: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/ ... s-nets.pdf. However, the intro of the NETS to Jeremiah does not seem to deal with the text variation you are looking at. And I cannot find vol II of my Rahlfs, (which is not the most current critical text of Jeremiah, which I assume is the Gottingen version by Ziegler.) If you get your hands one of those texts, you may be able to see which manuscripts contain 17.1-4 and which are missing it.
Perhaps Albert Pietersma will come out of retirement and chime in. He used to frequent our e-mail forum and was put off by our new php-based forum. http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm/
But the simplest explanation is that the Greek version of Jeramiah does not contain chapter 17.1-4."Different Hebrew sources for the MT and the LXX. Evidence of this can be found throughout the Old Testament. Most obvious are major differences in Jeremiah and Job, where the LXX is much shorter and chapters appear in different order than in the MT, and Esther where almost one third of the verses in the LXX text have no parallel in the MT."
-- Wikipedia
Perhaps Albert Pietersma will come out of retirement and chime in. He used to frequent our e-mail forum and was put off by our new php-based forum. http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm/
-
- Posts: 881
- Joined: May 12th, 2011, 7:50 am
- Location: Antigonish, NS, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Jeremiah 17:1-4
Ziegler has the following:Louis L Sorenson wrote:And I cannot find vol II of my Rahlfs, (which is not the most current critical text of Jeremiah, which I assume is the Gottingen version by Ziegler.) If you get your hands one of those texts, you may be able to see which manuscripts contain 17.1-4 and which are missing it.
Griechische und hebräische Reihenfolge der Kapitel des Ier.-Buches
LXX M
1:1–25:13 1:1–25:13
25:14–26:1 49:34–39
26 46
27 50
28 51
29:1–7 47:1–7
29:8–23 49:7–22
30:1–5 49:1–6
30:6–11 49:28–33
30:12–16 49:23–27
31 48
32:1–24 25:15–38
33 26
34 27
35 28
36 29
37 30
38 31
39 32
40 33
41 34
42 35
43 36
44 37
45 38
46 39
47 40
48 41
49 42
50 43
51:1–30 44:1–30
51:31–35 45:1–5
52 52
M LXX
1:1–25:13 1:1–25:13
25:15–38 32:1–24
26 33
27 34
28 35
29 36
30 37
31 38
32 39
33 40
34 41
35 42
36 43
37 44
38 45
39 46
40 47
41 48
42 49
43 50
44:1–30 51:1–30
45:1–5 51:31–35
46 26
47:1–7 29:1–7
48 31
49:1–6 30:1–5
49:7–22 29:8–23
49:23–27 30:12–16
49:28–33 30:6–11
49:34–39 25:14–26:1
50 27
51 28
52 52
Joseph Ziegler, ed., Jeremias, Baruch, Threni, Epistula Jeremiae (vol. XV; Vetus Testamentum Graecum. Auctoritate Academiae Scientiarum Gottingensis Editum; Göttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht, 2006).
Ken M. Penner
Professor and Chair of Religious Studies, St. Francis Xavier University
Co-Editor, Digital Biblical Studies
General Editor, Lexham English Septuagint
Co-Editor, Online Critical Pseudepigrapha pseudepigrapha.org
Professor and Chair of Religious Studies, St. Francis Xavier University
Co-Editor, Digital Biblical Studies
General Editor, Lexham English Septuagint
Co-Editor, Online Critical Pseudepigrapha pseudepigrapha.org
-
- Posts: 881
- Joined: May 12th, 2011, 7:50 am
- Location: Antigonish, NS, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Jeremiah 17:1-4
For a description of the textual history of Jeremiah, you may find the following helpful:
http://emanueltov.info/docs/papers/24.jer.1999.pdf
http://emanueltov.info/docs/papers/24.jer.1999.pdf
Ken M. Penner
Professor and Chair of Religious Studies, St. Francis Xavier University
Co-Editor, Digital Biblical Studies
General Editor, Lexham English Septuagint
Co-Editor, Online Critical Pseudepigrapha pseudepigrapha.org
Professor and Chair of Religious Studies, St. Francis Xavier University
Co-Editor, Digital Biblical Studies
General Editor, Lexham English Septuagint
Co-Editor, Online Critical Pseudepigrapha pseudepigrapha.org