I want to convert unicode to monotonic and ascii

Re: I want to convert unicode to monotonic and ascii

Postby Stephen Hughes » September 24th, 2013, 12:58 pm

Louis L Sorenson wrote:Has your question been answered?

Some of it yes, some of it no.

I have gotten a number of thoughts from individuals about their ideas about teaching and learning Greek. They have been helpful as I think about what is error and what is innacuracy. My biggest question at the moment is how to accomodate a learner who remembers where the stress marker is, but doesn't remember which of the three marks they should use.

I would prefer to work with online tools. Access to online things here is intermitttent sometimes, and I have access to a VPN now which gets around most access problems. want to see these lists finished before January (ie Christmas). I have the unicode Greek ready, and I have the Chinese meanings ready. I just need to arrange the Greek to accomodate for the feedback that Jonathan made about the memrise usage and then construct it without audio (first).

There is another question I don't know the answer to... Is RB's Living Koine pronunciation patented? Is it free for usage? Does one have to acknowledge the creator (RB) when using it?

The translatum.com site works well, thanks.

The one part of the question that I'm not sure about is;
(I've had a look at the tools on Tom's site that you referred to), and I want to know that if someone is on a machine that does not have the ability to type Greek, and they have to type in English, what should they use?
B-Greek - PATER hHMWN hO EN TOIS OURANOIS?
Perseus - *pa/ter h(mw=n o( e)n toi=s ou)ranoi=s
Or some other sort of keyboard layout? Is there a standard keystroke table for Greekkeys or for the microsoft Greek keyboard? I remember when I used to use Cadmus when I was at University, that was memory intensive. Which is the most common?
Stephen Hughes
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Re: I want to convert unicode to monotonic and ascii

Postby RandallButh » September 25th, 2013, 6:51 am

There is another question I don't know the answer to... Is RB's Living Koine pronunciation patented? Is it free for usage? Does one have to acknowledge the creator (RB) when using it?


As far as I know, languages and their pronunciations belong to the community of users. Everyone is free to use a Koine pronunciation when speaking/reading Koine Greek, or any other Greek for that matter. Other names for a "Koine" pronunciation include, Living Koine, Restored Koine, Imperial Koine, Roman-period Hellenistic. For simplicity of understanding, the emic Koine of the Roman period was basically like Modern Greek, but with two vowel sounds added to the modern system: Ητα and Υ-ψιλον.

Practically speaking, it would be helpful for readers or listeners to have a footnote or reference to the BiblicalLanguageCenter PDF at http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/k ... unciation/. Some of the other summaries on the web are not always reliable or accurate. And yes, we probably need to put up sound files with an overall survey. Maybe in November before SBL.

- - -
Further clarification:
The word "emic" in the above statement is important and helps to prevent misunderstandings. A phoneme refers to a meaningful sound unit of a pronunciation system and it exists in conjunction with the other phonemic sound units of the system. It does not refer to etic sound distinctions (sub-meaningful) that may distinguish dialects but do not distinguish meaning. Let me give an example.

In typical US "Erasmian" and several others, the ει grapheme and the η grapheme are the same phoneme /e/. However, most Americans will pronounce that /e/ with a little glide, as if /e-y/, while a French or Spanish "Erasmian" will pronounce the /e/ vowel without that American glide. The /-y/-glide is "etic", not a meaningful or functional part of the system. Both /e/ and /ey/ function as the same sound unit in "Erasmian". Spanish speakers usually hear that glide pretty clearly, and if used in Spanish, the dialect is noticeably "gringo".
On the other hand, Koine Greek in antiquity joined the grapheme ει with the grapheme ι and had one phoneme sound unit for them: /i/. The exact "color" or pronunciation of the /i/ might have been perceptably different in various localities, but all over the Koine world communities were pronouncing ει like they were pronouncing ι.

The problem with "Erasmian" systems is that the practioners typically mix the wrong graphemes together, so that they cannot read the ancient texts or papyri correctly. Most Erasmians cannot read the following attested word correctly: ΟΙΕΙΩ. An ancient person, or someone using a Koine pronunciation will be able to read that word correctly, pronouncing it the same as [üio], as υιῶ, 'to the son'. Rejoining the trajectory of real Greek pronunciation and feeling solidarity with the ancient language community is part of the attraction of Koine pronunciation.
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Re: I want to convert unicode to monotonic and ascii

Postby Louis L Sorenson » September 28th, 2013, 11:57 am

Alpheios is developing Chinese tools:http://alpheios.net/content/resources-under-development
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Re: I want to convert unicode to monotonic and ascii

Postby Stephen Hughes » September 29th, 2013, 8:32 am

NathanSmith wrote:The non-laborious way would of course to have a computer do that for you. :-)

Stephen Hughes wrote:I've had a look at those and they look useful if I could use Python.

The potential of the tools that you have suggested seems indeed great. Python is not so simple as BASIC was. I think it would take me more time to learn to use Python than to correct it manually.
Last edited by Stephen Hughes on September 29th, 2013, 8:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
Stephen Hughes
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Re: I want to convert unicode to monotonic and ascii

Postby Stephen Hughes » September 29th, 2013, 8:41 am

Louis L Sorenson wrote:Alpheios is developing Chinese tools
Thanks for that.

While this is primarily an English language medium forum. I think that interaction with the Chinese people at many levels is something worth working towards.

A recurrent theme throughout Chinese history is that periods of openness are followed by periods of isolation. NTG as a cultural heritage held in common by all Christians to a lesser or greater degree. It seems to me that during this current period of openness there might be a good opportunity to raise the level of Biblical Greek awareness / knowledge among those who are currently using it or potentially interested in it. Not only for now, but also for the next period of isolation.
Stephen Hughes
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