Andrew Chapman wrote:Rodney Decker designed his Koine Greek Reader for use in the classroom.
Most classroom books are of some value to individuals as well. It is amazing what you can scrounge up from various commentaries, grammars and other aids.
Andrew Chapman wrote: Stephen Hughes wrote:
Andrew Chapman wrote:παθόντας, of which it is the understood subject/doer of the action.
What case is παθόντας? cf. πάσχοντες
Thanks, Stephen, for clarifying that. It is accusative because it is agreeing with ὑμᾶς, which is accusative because it is the object of καλέσας. παθόντας is active voice - I realise that exactly what that means with an intransitive verb is less than obvious - but nevertheless they are the ones who have suffered. If it was expressed with an indicative verb, I think it would be ἐπάθετε, in which case they would be the grammatical subject. I looked up what one calls the 'subject' of a participle, and found the terms 'understood subject' and 'doer of the action', and so went for those, but would be happy to be corrected or have it put in a better way.
I've never really understood the word, "agreeing with". The ones suffering παθόντας are
the ὑμᾶς. The participle doesn't mark number, but it just as every bit 2nd person as the pronoun, he's just making some point about them clear.
I have only convoluted imaginings about the subject of participles - it's beyond my grammar - so far as I know, it is the subject or object, sorry.
I'm not sure why you've got that in the aorist? ἐπάθετε would most likely refer to a completed action. I think the verb might be ὑπομένετε ("Endure!"). That seems to be the verb that is used of people when they are in suffering, but if we want to look back on it, or encapsulate the action in a thought then we would use ἐπάθετε, as you suggested. Also if you were talking about other people in a general sense (at a distance) that would be a good word to use.
I suggest that ὁ καλέσας ὑμᾶς ... ὀλίγον παθόντας αὐτὸς καταρτίσει is a good place to get fuzzy-focused about the grammar. I mean that, rather than thinking about the "understood subject" in strict analytical terms, you could imagine like a company taking on new staff. "The company hiring us have undertaken to train, cloth, equip and supervise (us)." There is also a question as to whether the αὐτὸς is making it grammatically clear that ὁ καλέσας is repeated, or it is clear in terms of sense that αὐτὸς means he and nobody else will do those things.
If we want to stretch possibilities, we could wonder (just for a moment perhaps) whether ὀλίγον παθόντας is aorist with ὁ καλέσας or with καταρτίσει etc. "The one who called us after we had suffered a little while", or "he himself will ... (us) after we have suffered for just a short while". That has to do with your statement "but nevertheless they are the ones who have suffered", which I would rephrase as "but nevertheless they are the ones who will